pcb layout software

Haven't used it myself.

One thing to note is that you are to some extent "locked in" to using Advanced Circuits as the fab for your first set of boards. They'll give you Gerber files after that, but you apparently cannot generate your own portable Gerbers. KiCAD does not have that limitation.

They compare PCB Artist (feature-for-feature) against a bunch of other un-named PCB-design packages. Without knowing what the comparisons are, it's impossible to know if they're fair or accurate. They claim that none of the free packages support "integrated schematics/PCB" (weasel-worded "in a single application"), "symbol/footprint creation wizard", DRC rule check and report, BOM CSV export... and all of these are capabilities available in the current KiCAD (which is definitely free). So, either they're not comparing with KiCAD at all, or they're comparing it with a much older version.

I've been using KiCAD for my own (hobby-level) schematic capture and PCB board design for several years. KiCAD has come a *very* long way over the past few years and is much more complete and easier to use than it was when I started.

Add to that the fact that KiCAD _will_ export Gerbers and drill files usable at almost any fab, has an open-spec "plugin" API for which many useful scripts are being written, and runs on Linux... for me, PCB Artist is a non-starter.

The only thing PCB Artist may have (that I would want) which KiCAD does not, is a full built-in autorouter. But, given how evil a reputation most autorouters seem to have, it's not a big loss for me... KiCAD's walk- around and shove-aside manual routing works well enough for my needs.

I've been intending to learn KiCAD for some time now. I keep hearing about what sound like odd ways of doing somethings that aren't 100% mainstream. It's like someone created a program with lots of potential, but not really knowing how it would be used, so some of the ways of doing things require walking in the back door and out the front while facing backwards.

Is that strongly overstated?

I've only used FreePCB which is a very nice, easy to use package, very intu itive. I used it to design a very dense tiny board and it was nice. No fa ncy features like pushing routes. I found that was not an important featur e... but then maybe I don't know what I was missing, LOL.

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ut what sound like odd ways of doing somethings that aren't 100% mainstream . It's like someone created a program with lots of potential, but not real ly knowing how it would be used, so some of the ways of doing things requir e walking in the back door and out the front while facing backwards.

I was definitely like that before CERN got involved. The latest version (5 ) that just came out goes a long way toward making it feel professional. I would put it right up there with Altium for most uses now.

Thanks to all for the insights. Think I'll keep looking at KiCad, the unfortunate thing about any of these tools is that I'm such an infrequent user, it's like learning all over again every time the need comes up!

-bill

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about what sound like odd ways of doing somethings that aren't 100% mainstr eam. It's like someone created a program with lots of potential, but not r eally knowing how it would be used, so some of the ways of doing things req uire walking in the back door and out the front while facing backwards.

n (5) that just came out goes a long way toward making it feel professional . I would put it right up there with Altium for most uses now.

There are relatively few features about FreePCB in that regard. It's a pro blem I also have with many things on the PC unless it's something that plow ed a rut early on.

But it's not without it's issues. The main one being how secure you feel a bout using a tool that barely has support. The original maintainer has fle d the scene and his web site is no longer maintained. He also won't give t he keys to anyone else. Sad. I started an iogroup for it (moved from a Ya hoo group) and it is seeing more activity now. Too bad it doesn't have as much interest as it used to. It's a nice program.

I no longer have a license for Orcad schematic capture, so I'm looking to r eplace that. If I go with KiCAD I'll likely use their layout too. I think they have 3D stuff as well which can be useful.

FreePCB doesn't support ODB++ which some assembly houses expect to get. It lets them probe the board for debug or whatever. I think it is like a sma rt Gerber format that includes pin numbers and pad locations and maybe sign al names.

I don't know if KiCAD supports ODB++ or not. I believe there may be an IPC standard that encapsulates this, or maybe the IPC standard uses a subset t hat works with more gadgets. I can't recall exactly. I think it originall y was a Mentor format, but they may have duplicated an IPC idea. It's all a bit fuzzy these days. I just know I have to pay big bucks to get the IPC standard and I'm not willing to do that.

I don't think KiCAD exports to ODB++ yet.

It does have support for Gerber X2, which provides somewhat similar capabilities.

I don't know much about it at all. The guys at that one assembly house were talking like everyone is using ODB++. Maybe they were confused thinking this was a car part?

I've been meaning to learn KiCAD too but I must be getting old and lazy. I use the 20-year-old abandonware CircuitMaker 2000. I believe the free online CircuitMaker currently offered by Altium was derived from CM 2000 but is very different from it.

Most other CAD programs I've tried recently seem to require specifying a lot of parameters when starting a new project. Having long been used to the approach of CM 2000, I dislike having to do this.

CM 2000 immediately opens a new page that's ready to be populated without being tied to a project. Saved files - both schematic and PCB - are standalones. The schematic program is rather finicky but the PCB program is a dream to use, at least for me. It comes with a library of component footprints but all the ones I use are now my own creations.

Yes. Used it a lot. Highly featured, IMHO. (Having used PADs PCB in past.) Of course it locks you into using their PCB fab, pretty much.

But if you make you own PCBs, you can do screen grabs off the computer monitor and print those images to your laser printer.

cheers, Rich S.