OT: Why Federations are a Seriously Bad Idea

California schools have the same problem as all other US school. Schools are funded and run on a school-district by school-district basis.

Rich districts have more money to spend on their schools, and some of them spend it intelligently, while poor districts don't have much money.

Primary and secondary schooling in the US generally is regularly described as "variable". The best can be very good, the worst are diabolical, and there are a lot of under-performing schools.

Federal education policies - to the extent that they exist - are toothless.

Dubbya's "No child left behind" initiative was a fine conception, but totally under-funded - the Federal budget seems to have been diverted to the business of invading Irak.

Secession wouldn't do a thing for education in California - it's already piece-meal within the state.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman
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If you are a raging fantasist like Cursitor Doom, you invent your own crime statistics rather than paying any attention to those put together by the p olice and the courts.

Hardly any of which make it into the official statistics. The Daily Express does cherry-pick the crimes that are committed to emphasise those that hap pen to be committed by migrants from Eastern Europe, and Cursitor Doom desp erately wants to believe that kind of propaganda.

You should be so lucky. The standard of living is higher in both Germany an d Sweden, in part because the work-force is healthier, better trained and m ore productive, and in part because the investors are prepared to put in mo re capital per worker to help them to be more productive. It takes well-tra ined workers to manage expensive machines.

The UK - as a manufacturing country - was totally screwed by Margaret Thatc her who failed to encourage investment in those manufacturing industries th at were good enough to satisfy a substantial proportion of the European mar ket.

Some industries got there despite her policies - the Eurotherm Group had a company policy of investing enough to be competitive in the Europe-wide mar ket - but for the country as a whole the opportunity was essentially squand ered.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

It's the same crime survey that has been going since the early 80;s. Was it phony then when the crime levels were going up and up? How exactly is one supposed to come to an objective assessment of national crime level trends? By reading headlines in the Daily Mail?

It's totally obvious from the graphs that any attempt to correlate crime levels with immigration would show it massively *decreases* crime. I doubt it does really, decreasing crime levels are instead probably a side effect of a more affluent society.

It's all in your head Paul.,..

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John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

Sadly, the tin-pot politicians in tin-pot little countries make very bad la ws.

Most of them favour the politician's backers or relatives at the expense of the rest of the country. Federations have a wider choice of politicians, w ho have been known to work out compromises that work well for all the count ries in the federation. It doesn't always happen, but a bigger stage with m ore interests in play does tend to generate better outcomes.

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The UK has always been a largely safe and peaceful country. There are scumb ags amongst the immigrants, but no higher proportion than in the domestic p opulation, despite Cursitor Doom's pathetic susceptibility to anti-immigran t propaganda in the Daily Express.

The Daily Express makes money by lying to Cursitor Doom, telling him tales that make him happily indignant, and he's silly enough to take the tales se riously.

In fact it isn't. US criminal are primarily poor, rather than immigrant, an d the miserable US welfare net means that many of the poor are good for not hing except the least demanding of criminal activities. US sentencing habit s mean that they keep a much higher proportion of the population in prison than more civilised countries, but that's due to the court's imposing longe r sentences (under pressure from the the US equivalents of Cursitor Doom) r ather than more frequent criminal behavior.

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It didn't work when they wanted to maintain proper control of their slaves. Why should it work for immigration? In fact illegal immigration into the U S isn't so much pushed by poor Mexicans as pulled by capitalists who want c heap labour, and find that illegal immigrants are even more willing to be e xploited than the domestic poor.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Provide said graphs.

You think that all people who want to get out of their country are model citizens ? And how come none of these people are doctors, engineers, machinists or mechanics ? If tyhe conditions are so bad, the smart people would want to leave. Where are they ?

Spock : "It is illogical".

Although I will agree with one thing, we could use more people ready for an insurrection because we are way overdue. Funny how that problem might just work itself out eh ?

Reply to
jurb6006

I did in the link you snipped.

here it is again.

Note this is for the UK, not USA. I was replying to a post about an alleged wave of violent crime in the UK, supposedly due to immigration.

I also said that the actual *massive decrease* in violent crime was in fact likely *not* due to increased immigration. Just that if you were silly enough to try to correlate the two things then that is what you would have to conclude.

Of course not. No one says that. From what experience I have they are slightly more likely to be model citizens than native born. But in any population there will be some proportion of low lifes. Probably less in the immigrant population than native.

Huh? They are. They do. They are here already. In the UK over 25% of doctors are of non-british origin. Our NHS would probably collapse without them. Similar for dentists, many many skilled professions including engineering. (I would have thought the "Indian" engineer / technical guy is almost the default, so common it is a cliche.)

(That is a right-wing, conservative, pro-"Brexit" newspaper by the way)

Of course a lot of them are cleaners and delivery drivers and and so forth, too.

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John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

Clearly they are massaging the stats so that the public are unable to make informed decisions on matters concerning the true impact of immigration from countries with disastrously primitive cultural norms. The idea being (obviously) to minimise opposition to these latest waves of mass immigration from 3rd-world, basket-case nations.

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

I wish. I can still remember the days when a murder - even a simple straightforward one - was a major national news story worthy of saturation media attention for weeks on end. But in the 60 yrs that has elapsed since those far-off, halcyon days of civility and homogenous communities, such murders are scarcely even remarked on any more. To make any headlines at all, there has to be some severe aggravating element to the crime (unless of course the suspected perp is black or Asian of course, in which case the story, no matter how gruesome, is quietly buried).

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

Then deport 25% of foreign patients, then! ;->

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

Rape case reporting is notoriously unreliable. An Australian study estimated that only about 15% of rapes got reported to the police, but it's the victims who are "massaging the stats", not the authorities.

The police are a procedure-driven bunch, and it would be hard for politicians to conceal rapes that were reported at police stations.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

"Foreigners" were about 11.3% of the UK population in 2010. In 2010 7.7% of the UK population had been born outside the EU and 3.6% in other parts of the EU.

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Getting rid of a quarter of them isn't going to make a 25% reduction the lo ad on the NHS - quite a lot less, since you make most use of hospital servi ces in the lat 18 months of your life, and the proportion of foreigners amo ngst the elderly will reflect earlier times when the UK had fewer resident aliens.

As usual, Cursitor Doom obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Actually, you can't. Any murder that got prolonged media attention wasn't straightforward. Try and dig up an example.

So the Daily Express now only pulls out all the stops when the murderer is from Eastern Europe. How unexpected. They used to be very down on the more heavily pigmented members of UK society.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Quietly buried on the front page of the Daily Mail you mean. And the next few pages.

Sorry, you can argue about the proportion of crimes such as rape that are reported / suppressed etc. But murder is murder. It is a simple fact that the rate has nearly halved over the past couple of decades. (As has the amount of violent crime in general). Precisely the period of increased EU immigration that you claim is the cause of an explosion of same.

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John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

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The statistics make the point that even in 1960 there was a about a murder per day in the UK so that if a "simple straightforward murder" was "major n ational news story worthy of saturation media attention for weeks on end" t he newspapers would have been providing saturation coverage for perhaps ten or twenty murders every day.

This obviously didn't happen, so Cursitor Doom was being even sillier than usual.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

World Exclusive *Shock News* - Old guy says things were better in the good old days.

At 52 I guess I'm getting there... :)

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John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

Irrelevant to Jurbs statement, which you snipped, that there are no skilled immigrants.

And of course there are not 25% foreign patients either, but debating the relative costs and benefits of EU immigration with you does not seem a productive use of my time...

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John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

Well don't, then! I've no intention of wasting time arguing politics with you, either.

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

Your Daily Mail bogeyman is a phoney rag that purports to be critical of the Establishment but isn't. Just before the Brexit vote they started rigging their comment sections to give a false impression that the Remoaners had a significant lead. Then *days* before the vote they switched from supporting 'Leave' to backing 'Remain' - like as if they weren't for 'Remain' all along! That perfidy cost them a hell of a lot of readers and quite right too. You can't get away with such shenangigans in the internet age. The Express has done well out of it, though, in picking up disaffected Mail readers because they stayed true to the 'Leave' cause throughout. People will remember and respect them for that.

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

As if Cursitor Doom had the capacity to argue politics. He is capable of presenting misconceptions, but is not up to defending them.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Anybody who respects the Daily Express has got to have severely impaired ju dgement. If they stayed "true" to the 'Leave' cause, it wasn't because of a ny sense of integrity but rather a commercial judgement about what would ap peal to their readers, who are a dim crew. Cursitor Doom is a pretty horrib le example, but the Daily Express has been a down-market newspaper aimed at the bottom end of the newspaper-buying public for some years now.

They don't support the UK Press Complaints Commission and tend to be descri bed as a "rogue" newspaper.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

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