OT Thinking out loud

Ah yes. The "fur-lined rut".

When I found myself in that at HPLabs, I decided to leave. Watching Carly Fiorina didn't do anything to counteract that decision!

I've always taken Frank Herbert's phrase "the easy path which leads downward to stagnation" to heart.

I was once in a company which merged, and eventually my small division was moved. I had the choice of staying on the same site in a humdrum job (low risk low reward), or going to the new site to an unknown job (high risk high reward).

I chose the latter, on the basis that if the job there was merely OK, I wouldn't be able to tolerate the travelling.

It was crap, and I moved to a /much/ more interesting job in Cambridge (great town, appalling countryside).

Never regretted putting myself in a position where the status quo would be intolerable. But that's not so easy when you have family responsibilities.

You could always move to a civilised country, where health care is free.

I live in such a country :)

But it is becoming less civilised by the month, and will be more impoverished after December 2020 :(

I know the answer to this one. You simply need a clause that requires them to indemnify you for any losses (make that as general as possible) resulti ng from your consulting with them. Make sure they have to pay for "reasona ble attorney fees" and other expenses and that you and your people get to d irect the defense. This is standard language in so many contracts these da ys including the terms and conditions of nearly every web site you ever vis it.

The part I don't understand is that you genuinely seem to be dreading/hatin g the idea of ever going back there. Why would you? You weren't fired. Y ou have a signed severance agreement. What is your motivation to returning rather than looking ahead to your next job? Looking ahead is often the be st thing. It's no so much like a romantic breakup. Much better to look ah ead and just forget the previous one.

em to indemnify you for any losses (make that as general as possible) resul ting from your consulting with them. Make sure they have to pay for "reaso nable attorney fees" and other expenses and that you and your people get to direct the defense. This is standard language in so many contracts these days including the terms and conditions of nearly every web site you ever v isit.

ing the idea of ever going back there. Why would you? You weren't fired. You have a signed severance agreement. What is your motivation to returni ng rather than looking ahead to your next job? Looking ahead is often the best thing. It's no so much like a romantic breakup. Much better to look ahead and just forget the previous one.

Thanks Rick, I agree. I sent my ex boss an email on Thursday saying I'd come in next week and show them stuff. Next week was good for me 'cause Mr X. wouldn't be there. The response is here in dropbox... (so I can delete it in a few days. )

I just want to observe that saying you are looking forward to working with someone, you just fired, is kinda weird.

George H.

To me the "it is crucial" clause indicates any/all of - classic doublethink, esp. w.r.t. not trusting your judgement! - you've got them by the short and curlies (if you wish) - they are preparing the ground to deny pay a settlement

The latter could happen if your payout is contingent on your satisfactorily handing over your knowledge. That would be a bad position to be in since they could claim their inability is due to your not giving them the secret sauce.

I'm not sure how to defend against that. Partial defences could include: - during the meeting, note down their questions and your answers, and "confirm this is what we said" afterwards - at the end of the day, ask them if they have more questions - you tape record everything you pass over in the meetings, particularly the answer to that final question

Main benefit would be to show them your ammunition, if they were stupid enough to make you go to court.

He might genuinely mean it. Instructions to fire can come from on high.

Think about how much you intend to charge them per diem for ongoing support over and above what you decide to do for free. $1k+ per day?

I recall our company arbitrarily fired a guy who did a perfectly good product launch for having an untidy desk because the next tier of management up wanted to see if the S&M manager had any balls.

FWIW I recommend not burning any bridges that you don't absolutely have to burn. You never know when old contacts might come in useful.

My favourite all time letter was in French from Logitech in Switzerland back in the days when they were a Modula 2 compiler company (pre-mouse) immediate threatening immediate legal action if outstanding bills were not paid. It finished with the characteristic flowery language about greetings and felicitations that ends more French business letters.

e:

them to indemnify you for any losses (make that as general as possible) re sulting from your consulting with them. Make sure they have to pay for "re asonable attorney fees" and other expenses and that you and your people get to direct the defense. This is standard language in so many contracts the se days including the terms and conditions of nearly every web site you eve r visit.

hating the idea of ever going back there. Why would you? You weren't fire d. You have a signed severance agreement. What is your motivation to retu rning rather than looking ahead to your next job? Looking ahead is often t he best thing. It's no so much like a romantic breakup. Much better to lo ok ahead and just forget the previous one.

e:

them to indemnify you for any losses (make that as general as possible) re sulting from your consulting with them. Make sure they have to pay for "re asonable attorney fees" and other expenses and that you and your people get to direct the defense. This is standard language in so many contracts the se days including the terms and conditions of nearly every web site you eve r visit.

hating the idea of ever going back there. Why would you? You weren't fire d. You have a signed severance agreement. What is your motivation to retu rning rather than looking ahead to your next job? Looking ahead is often t he best thing. It's no so much like a romantic breakup. Much better to lo ok ahead and just forget the previous one.

No, I don't think so. About the only stick/carrot he has is how much in bonuses to give this year. I don't want to hold anyone's short hairs. Mostly just a clean end... no more BS that I have to put up with.

George H.

e:

them to indemnify you for any losses (make that as general as possible) re sulting from your consulting with them. Make sure they have to pay for "re asonable attorney fees" and other expenses and that you and your people get to direct the defense. This is standard language in so many contracts the se days including the terms and conditions of nearly every web site you eve r visit.

hating the idea of ever going back there. Why would you? You weren't fire d. You have a signed severance agreement. What is your motivation to retu rning rather than looking ahead to your next job? Looking ahead is often t he best thing. It's no so much like a romantic breakup. Much better to lo ok ahead and just forget the previous one.

Nah small company, he is the head honcho.

OK, Well there are only two contacts here. My boss... bridge looks fairly 'charred'. And Mr X. I have no hard feeling towards Mr. X, I just don't want to work with him.

George H.

OK; you can assess that.

Ambiguous phrasing on my part.

If, sometime in the future, you charge them $2k/day for your knowledge, they will be highly incentivised to avoid wasting your time with bullshit :)

They will, of course, do the calculation that $2k is the cheapest option open to them.