OT Thinking out loud

Personally I wouldn't feel I owed much /to them/. Doubly so if they initiated the divorce. What I "owe myself" is far more important in the long term.

So, firstly, I would ensure I didn't /lose/ anything because of them. Examples - my time - my money - conflict with a future employer - my self-respect w.r.t. wanting to do a decent (in all senses) job - my reputation - my satisfaction w.r.t. my babies

Secondly I might think about continuing a financially rewarding relationship with them. That requires not allowing myself to become a doormat.

Finally, if you have your "drop dead money"[1], you would probably be happier if you forgot about the money.

One example from my past...

I had a patent application in progress, the employer shut the site, and made everybody redundant. I moved on and got another job.

A few months later they wanted me to help them getting that patent in other territories including the US. They sent me a standard document to sign with phrases such as I "would do everything necessary to progress the application".

Now I wouldn't have minded signing a single document or so, but there's no way I was going to commit to doing "everything necessary"!

I inserted modified the clauses to "everything reasonably necessary" and signed and dated each change. Since they hadn't bothered to send me an envelope, I simply stuck it in a non-stamped envelope and returned it to them.

They sent me another copy a few months later; I repeated that process.

You didn't cash out vacay? Call the labor board or a lawyer. Stolen wages aren't a matter of politeness.

Tim

tirsdag den 5. november 2019 kl. 23.19.10 UTC+1 skrev Tim Williams:

here your vacation "account" just continues, i.e. when you leave an employer the vacation you have accumulated gets paid into an account to pay for your next vacation regardless of where you work at that time

Here's the thing, George. It really doesn't take much "f-you" money to exit immediately and completely. Money routinely fosters unhealthy relationships.

Just let it go. It literally is only money.

Right, thanks. (and Tom above) I've got this anger, and think... make 'em pay. But then when I think about it the money doesn't do much for me. So what's the point.

I can do my day or two of show and tell and then close that book. That feels acceptable to me.

George H.

And making them pay won't affect any of the assholes who you're angry at. It's not their money. Really is no point.

Thinking is dangerous. Results can be disastrous.

You're welcome.

There /might/ be a point to screwing them: if you actively get pleasure from exacting revenge.

Of course, if they find they do need your expertise for to dig them out of a hole, you could charge them the proverbial $100 ($1 for digging and $99 for knowing where to dig).

I would make them pay

Then if you don?t want to keep the money, donate it to charity or b uy pizzas for the entire firm (don?t know the size of it).

etely.

I don't recall the details you laid out in your previous thread on this, bu t it sounds like you have some real issues with them. I suggest you just c hill a while and let things settle in your mind and heart. So take a week or two. You don't need to go in to educate them right away do you?

Once you have had a chance to stop thinking about this you can have some ne w ideas and likely get past some of the anger/frustration to figure out wha t will make *you* feel the best you can about it all.

Work for pay, work for free, rake them over the coals, whatever. Just give your self time to relax and figure out how you really feel about helping t hem.

Seems you want revenge.

Option three: tell them who needs to leave before you'll return.

Option four: charge them $X for consulting if person Y is there, and X/10 if Y has left :)

Sometimes /thinking/ about revenge can be fun - but make sure the emphasis is on fun :)

That bit you have to let go of and accept that they are now someone else's problem to worry about. If they can't make them work then they will come back to you cap in hand in a few months time.

One of my former employers was on the phone within weeks of me leaving (although it was my decision to leave them and go independent). I got fed up with them importing "consultants" whose bad advice was followed when my good advice was ignored so decided to let them get on with it.

FWIW My advice is don't do *anything* for free.

BTW At least in the UK you are *entitled* to be paid for any outstanding holiday entitlement. Check your contract of employment carefully.

Obviously it is your choice but if you want to make a living consulting then contacts can be valuable and other people from the organisation may also move on and remember that you were a handy guy to have around.

I would never do anything for nothing (unless it was for a start up I liked where I could make a big difference with minimal effort and I felt the project was worthwhile and interesting).

Do you want a clean break or not?

This depends a lot on how you got on with your co-workers and managers. I generally managed to stay on relatively good terms with all the ones I rated but I never got made redundant. People I know who have been fall into two camps - the ones who retain contacts with their former boss (accepting that they were just doing their job) and those that never speak to their former boss ever again. It is your choice but if your boss was one of the good guys it does no harm to retain contacts in the business for when they need help in some future role in another company.

They terminated your contract of employment. Do you get any redundancy as a result or was it pure and simple sacking with no compensation.

Decisions have consequences and you are under no obligation to help them out even if they are desperate. They may make it more worthwhile if you play hard to get.

That is only a problem if there are contacts in the company that you might hope to keep onside as referees for job applications or offers of future work. I got a proportion of offers of contract work from various former managers and contacts made at my former employers. I was known for being able diagnose complex faults and make things work.

My brother in law used to work as a university lab technician in various roles. Not massively well paid but secure and a chance to work in a very stimulating environment with great people and on cutting edge toys.

If you are going to go contracting you need to develop a more brutal pay me reliably or you get nothing useful by way of advice style. I had a habit of being unavailable for any new work if I had unpaid invoices from particular clients that I knew were very bad payers.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do next.

buy pizzas for the entire firm (don?t know the size of it).

Ten to twelve people, depending on how you count part time.

It's not so much about the money. It had become a toxic atmosphere for me. I kept my head down and did my work. Now it's hard to imagine an amount of money that would make me go back to that... I guess the only pull (back) would be to know my instrument were going out in good order.

George H.

pletely.

but it sounds like you have some real issues with them. I suggest you just chill a while and let things settle in your mind and heart. So take a wee k or two. You don't need to go in to educate them right away do you? Hah, they have product to ship and don't know how to test it.

new ideas and likely get past some of the anger/frustration to figure out w hat will make *you* feel the best you can about it all.

ve your self time to relax and figure out how you really feel about helping them.

Right, Thanks. I am doing some thinking.

George H.

... so perhaps the customers will notice problems and complain. If the customers are important to the business, they may come back to you.

Could you do consulting for the customers?

Might depend on what you are doing: - getting it working for each and every customer - OK - giving ammunition to sue your ex employer - questionable

Hmm revenge is not quite right. Anger and sadness, the anger is directed at me as much anyone else. I lost my 'mojo' (fire in the belly, that thing which gives you shower ideas in the morning and plans for the day as you drive into work.) years ago, that was the time to leave. I guess that is my lesson learned.

George H.

Yeah, my boss and I had a parting conversation. (it was a doozie) One thing he said that, struck me is that he had lost confidence in what I was saying or suggesting. That explained a lot to me!

I guess I agree, the 'for free' thing in this case is very different. Since the money is not that important, it's about power. I'm not training person X and ~1/2 of a day will be spent with person Y showing them stuff.

Right, A clean break.

Oh, from previous posts, I hired a lawyer, ~$500 and she changed the language in the severance agreement to something I could sign. 3 months pay and health care, and 3/4's of the yearly bonus.

Besides other things, there are 4-5 aligned diode lasers on the shelf.

Right there are many more contacts between (past) customers and vendors.

As in many jobs having the right boss/ co-workers is a big part of it.

Hmm Is there some standard consultant contract that clears you of all reasonable liability while you consult?

Thanks, I do so appreciate the input from ya'all here on SED.

George H.

Nah, I think quality goes down a bit and most customers won't even notice. Customer support will suffer.

George H.