Sorry SL0WMAN, but Tesla uses an aluminum oxide NCA chemistry, or Nickel, Cobalt, and Aluminum (LiNiCoAlO2). In any event, oxygen is in the chemistry and can be dissociated with sufficient heat. If it isn't why can't a lithium battery fire be put out with water?
John Doe snipped-for-privacy@message.header wrote in news:s5kpqu$tcp$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
You are a clueless dumbfuck.
There is no c in shill, you retarded illiterate piece of s*it.
Perhaps YOU are the "dumbfuck"
Flyguy snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
No. John DoeTard and you FlyTurd are the dumbfucks.
He was obviously trying to call Rick C "A shill", but he added the c. In your wiki link I see no definition that matches up with the speech he was writing.
Where your pathetic brain is at is unknown. That is the level of stupid you are at, chump.
Except that he isn't. Cursitor Doom has made the claim for some lunatic reason of his own, but the rest of us know that he is lying.
Cursitor Doom is the weird conspiracy merchant around here. He finds reality unsatisfying. You are silly enough to take him seriously.
Only to keep demented lunatics like you and Cursitor Doom happy. You'd probably have been just as unhappy with my contributions when I posting from the Netherlands.
_ Bill Sloman, Sydney (but formerly Nijmegen).
Getting a Ph.D. in physical chemistry involved listening to quite a few lectures on inorganic chemistry.
Aluminium oxide is a rotten oxidiser. Cobalt and manganese oxides, particularly MnO2, and Co203, give up some of their oxygen a lot more easily.
The problem with lithium batteries is the lithium. Even if it is only present as intercalated lithium atoms, a fire can boil it out and water can oxidise it (releasing hydrogen in the process).
I know you take every opportunity to parade your idiotic ignorance, but this particular bit of ignorance was more idiotic than most.
Difference is, the energy in the battery is completely self-contained and can therefore sustain a catastrophic discharge independently of external influences. The fuel needs oxygen to burn -- take that away, it goes out.
Lithium primary cells are sometimes used in downhole instrumentation and they're available in (very expensive) high temperature versions. Obviously much smaller than a car power pack.
If there is a battery fire - I've never seen one - the procedure is supposedly to use Sodium Bicarbonate powder. I don't know why, it may just be H&S rote teaching.
Here they use a 20ft shipping container fitted with piping and with ramps to make it easier to drive the car in. They bring the container to the place of the accident, push the car in, close the doors, connect a fire engine to the pipe fitting on the container, and switch it on.
Much more effective than just showering it with water.
Another approach is to have a car-sized dumpster, hoist the car into that, and fill it with water.
That is true. Battery fires can be hard to extinguish. They are also hard to ignite. While a small gasoline leak can easily result in a catastrophic fire, a battery requires significant damage to cause a fire. A good example is the Pinto gas tank being punctured by a bolt resulting in horrendous gasoline fires, burns and deaths. It takes a major accident before there is any significant risk from a battery fire. The real damage in an accident happens in the first few minutes before any help arrives. It doesn't really matter than it can take longer to put out a battery fire.
We have been driving gasoline powered death traps for over a hundred years. Now that the energy storage is changing people want to get excited about every aspect of the change. The risk of fire with EVs is different from the risk of fire from ICE. That doesn't mean it is more likely or more dangerous than gasoline fires. As Larkin has pointed out many time, chemical storage of energy is much more dense than electrical storage. That carries the potential of a much worse risk of harm when mishandled or an accident happens. So far I've not heard of a charging station spilling electrons and igniting all the cars charging. Gas stations have fires and that can be a huge deal. I wonder why that is not discussed? I know why, we have acclimated. Likewise at some point we will acclimate to EVs and their batteries.
Interesting - the car didn't know there was no autopilot or driver. Without either, it ran at high speed from a standing position, after the driver reversed it out of a driveway, then left the driver's seat.
There's no user-controlled accelerator/ speed control? There's no dead man switch?
Who's on first?
RL
Yes, as has been said, there is a detector in the seat and the steering wheel. You can take your hands off the wheel for some seconds before it complains, then stops the car slowly. Getting out of the seat takes the car out of autopilot immediately. The seat belt also has to be fastened although that is not hard to defeat.
However... Musk is saying the car was not on autopilot and in fact, the car did not have full self driving (a misnomer since it is not "full" or "self" driving).
This article seems to be saying the owner jumped into the back seat. What could he have been thinking? Darwin award winner I suppose.
Maybe he saw the tree coming and panicked?
Or maybe he was not wearing the seat belt, and was thrown about by the encounter with the tree? Impacts are only very rarely square on, so there will be all manner of side forces.
Joe Gwinn
Their wives said they were showing off "driverless" car when leaving, all the way to heaven.
Tesla says the car didn't have the full self driving feature. So that can't be blamed. Without that the car has autopilot which does steer the car without features like auto lane change and stop light/sign detection. However, Tesla claims the car was on roads that had no lane lines and so the car will not engage autopilot. It is possible to engage autopilot and then come to pavement with no line markings and it will continue to steer the car. I know from personal experience. But it doesn't manage any turns on it's own other than freeway ramps that are just lane changes. I believe they said this was not on a high speed road, but local to the home. So not likely to be an autopilot issue.
Why not wait for the facts rather than continuing to speculate on something you have little knowledge of?
Yes, we should. I am just echoing what one of the news source reported.
Something is very odd. The location of the accident is on a low speed residential street.
18 Hammock Dunes Pl, Spring, TX 77389
I don't see anything about seat detectors, seat belt detectors or steering wheel detectors in non-self driving car operator manuals. Only a reference to an open door or brake effect on 'stopping'.
There's also a reference to 'enumerating all of the stupid things a driver might do" .... 'we're not responsible for . . . "
If they're chasing stupidity with software, they're just making things worse.
Who's on first? Basic operation is first - please . . . .
RL
Sorry, you don't see anything where? Maybe you aren't looking in the right place? Did you look for the info someplace? I don't understand what your point is.
Sorry, again, I can't tell what context you are referring to. Where did you see this, in an article on the accident?
Yeah, you seem to like talking in code. Do you have something to say? If so, say it.
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