OT: "Science" on the other side of the pond

CO2 is good for plants.

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"Lewis Ziska, a plant physiologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service, said his research shows that marijuana grown outdoors will likely become stronger and require less water to thrive. He said a small portion of plant species have adapted to lower carbon dioxide levels, but most including marijuana, still feel deprived."

Boosts medicinal plants, another bennie.

"Retired USDA ethno-botanist James Duke said that when plants are stressed, like is often the case during a drought, they tend to exhibit more of their medicinal properties."

Cheers, James

Reply to
dagmargoodboat
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-industry funded denialist propaganda machine.

Okay how about Wiki?

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ere no one would be talking about a carbon tax. Everyone would be rushing to build wind farms.

duce power when the wind isn't blowing. Natural gas comes out of a pipe whe never you turn the tap on, and a gas turbine and the generator it drives ar e rather more compact than the average wind turbine.

No one in my state is rushing to build a wind farm. Not much steady wind h ere. No natural gas produced here either ,but gas is transportable. Wind not so much.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

Even if not, it could get ugly. Nobody's doing the basic storytelling about the various droughts and how they are possibly related to AGW ( it's just assumed to be causal ) , but the Western US is likely to get really rough.

Not 1930s Dust Bowl ugly ( since Lenin and Stalin are both dead, and they caused the Dust Bowl as much as did anyone ).

When you're an Okie, you have to know these things...

For the same reason they don't make horror movies in which nothing bad happens.

I figure Really Interesting Things, most of them pretty bad, are gonna happen from CO2. But there's simply nothing to be done about it on a short term basis. Maybe incremental progress will be enough.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

should be injecting less CO2 into the atmosphere, but I've also said that the only effective way of getting this to happen is through good old-fashio ned socialist collective action.

is to get the cost of renewable power below the cost of using fossil fuel for power. That will happen, but it is not true now.

or solar cells when manufacturing volume goes up by yet another factor of t en. Good old socialist collective action would enlarge the market for solar cells enough to make that happen more or less overnight - the market enlar gement, anyway.

t a way of making a higher volume of parts more cheaply - but they do happe n reliably.

t cheap yet, but we can hope.

re no one would be talking about a carbon tax. Everyone would be rushing to build wind farms.

Or unless there are enough wind farms or PV over an extended area to smooth out the natural variation. Thermal solar towers, heating large and well-in sulated tanks of molten salt that can stay hot for at least a day - and sev eral days would seem to be entirely feasible - can provide hot stand-by cov er.

People with an interest in thinking ahead - rather than in claiming that th e present system is the only one that can work - talk about the "smart grid " which can negotiate load-shedding to serve the same function.

One doesn't need google to create images of John Larkin with his head up hi s ass.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

It seems extremely unlikely. But somebody who doesn't believe that anthropogenic global warming isn't happening now doesn't have much of a grip on reality.

True. But why would the newspapers bother telling us about them?

Sadly, horrible disasters are more newsworthy, and would need to be dealt with even if the positive side effects were to make this easier.

And do tell me about the positive effects of sea level rise.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

There are consistant Sierra snowpack measurements since the 1860s. There is no longterm trend, and the current drought is not unusual.

I'm always optimistic, so I've signed up for another season pass at Sugar Bowl. We were supposed to have the driveway sealed at the cabin, but they couldn't start today because it's raining.

OK there's some huge mean zombie looking monster. He appears across the yard or something, shuffling towards a victim, arms extended. The (usually beautiful, blond) victim could walk away at a leisurely pace, but instead stands there and screams until the beast slouches over and rips her head off.

I never understood that.

A few windmills and solar panels are silly. China and India (and Germany) are going to burn coal as fast as they can get it. We'll see

500 PPM for sure.
--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

True. Of course if you give plants more CO2, they reduce the number of stomata in their leaves to lose less H2O per unit of CO2 captured - which is to say that plant growth tends to be H2O limited rather than CO2 limited.

Make up your mind. More CO2 reduces the stress on marijuana, so it contains less cannabis, but lets it grow faster, so it's easier for the feds to find.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

on-industry funded denialist propaganda machine.

Did you read through that article to the end? They put current - tall - on- shore wind-turbines as cheaper than coal. Older studies see older wind-turb ines as more expensive, which they were, but since we took to build more an bigger units economies of scale have kicked in.

were no one would be talking about a carbon tax. Everyone would be rushi ng to build wind farms.

roduce power when the wind isn't blowing. Natural gas comes out of a pipe w henever you turn the tap on, and a gas turbine and the generator it drives are rather more compact than the average wind turbine.

d not so much.

Wind blows where it likes. High voltage DC transmission lines let you ship electricity over up to 2000km - whence the German scheme to build their sol ar plants in the Sahara. They tend to build their wind farms in the North S ea.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

We've adapted to the status quo. We'll have to readapt or die, when there's a bad change. When there's a good change, our preparations in advance aren't a matter of vital necessity.

A 'change' is more likely to be bad, of course; there's lots of natural ways my house can become uninhabitable, not many that will add a third bathroom or convenient electrical outlet.

Reply to
whit3rd

n-shore wind-turbines as cheaper than coal. Older studies see older wind-tu rbines as more expensive, which they were, but since we took to build more an bigger units economies of scale have kicked in.

No, I did not read the article, much less to the end. But I looked at the charts which showed wind power as more expensive than natural gas. Natural gas being cheaper that coal.

p electricity over up to 2000km - whence the German scheme to build their s olar plants in the Sahara. They tend to build their wind farms in the North Sea.

The good thing about not having a lot of wind, is that we do not have a bun ch of tornadoes. How well do wind turbines stand up to small tornadoes?

The problem with long transmission lines is they make wind power more expen sive and you also get less power out than you put in. Less of a problem wi th DC high voltage. But then DC high voltage transmission lines costs more .

From Wiki.

Transmission and distribution losses in the USA were estimated at 6.6% in 1

997[11] and 6.5% in 2007.[11] By using underground DC transmission, these l osses can be cut in half.[citation ne

The problem with underground transmission is of course the increased cost.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

Well if the ocean rises a couple of hundred feet, the house will be closer to the beach.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

They don't stand up!

I expect that a ng pipeline moves a couple of orders of magnitude more energy than a big power line, with less relative losses. As a gasoline pump hose moves the equivalent of megawatts of electricity.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   laser drivers and controllers 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

on-shore wind-turbines as cheaper than coal. Older studies see older wind- turbines as more expensive, which they were, but since we took to building more and bigger units economies of scale have kicked in.

e charts which showed wind power as more expensive than natural gas. Natur al gas being cheaper that coal.

You cited it without realising that it didn't actually say what you thought it did - that's stupid.

The charts came from various sources and had various dates on them. You che rry-picked the ones that suited your point of view, and failed to appreciat e the content of the article taken as whole.

hip electricity over up to 2000km - whence the German scheme to build their solar plants in the Sahara. They tend to build their wind farms in the Nor th Sea.

unch of tornadoes. How well do wind turbines stand up to small tornadoes?

AS John Larkin says, they don't. Neither does much else, power lines and co nventional power stations included.

ensive and you also get less power out than you put in. Less of a problem with DC high voltage. But then DC high voltage transmission lines costs mo re.

Sure.

1997[11] and 6.5% in 2007.[11] By using underground DC transmission, these losses can be cut in half.[citation needed]
.

We can all do that kind of sum. Of course, the numbers you plug into it mat ter, and parading out of date numbers isn't a way gaining credibility. Your 's is shot.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

I cherry picked as in picking the most current chart. So you are wrong when you say I picked for ones that suited my point of view.

Oh no Mr. Bill. My credibility is barely above yours.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

So why do you think that coal is cheaper than modern land-based wind power?

One has to assume that the "current" chart was - conveniently for your purpose - somewhat out of date.

Your's is shot.

Another blow to your credibility. Credibility is telling it like it is, not telling a story that sounds plausible to the krw's and the dca's of this world.

And it's Dr. Bill to you ...

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

I never said it was. What I said was the chart shows natural gas being cheaper than wind power.

The chart I was looking at was of projected costs in 2019 in the U.S.

No it is still Mr. Bill. Just coincidence that your name is also Bill. See

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Those that watched Saturday Night Live will get the reference.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

You can die; I'd rather not. A couple degrees C increase isn't going to make me keel over.

When there's a good change, our preparations

Really? What if a slightly warmer world, with a bit more CO2, was better? Climate changes a lot faster than evolution changes us. We can now breed or alter plant crops quickly.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

In a calibrated instrument, what is the likelihood of higher accuracy as a result of unplanned component value changes? A change, here, is most likely bad.

Of the nine bodies in this solar system, how many would you be able to survive on? Less than half, surely. A change of planetary address, thus, is most likely bad.

Random change, entropy, disorder... doesn't fit into the same pattern as selective changes (like, optimizing a design or choosing demican versus republicrat). The half-good expectation is for one-dimensional systems, a single degree of freedom and no mixed partial derivatives (or positive feedback).

Reply to
whit3rd

Easy. She knows that if she runs--in a horror movie--there's a 100% chance she'll fall and get eaten anyhow.

Cheers, James

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

Humans have evolved over a million years or so. Plants, more like a billion. The climate swings from glaciers to deserts in tens of thousands. We had a little ice age not many generations ago, and some nice hot spells too. I doubt that we or our crops are evolved perfectly to today's climate. Being perfectly adapted to the current climate would be the only explanation for the concept that any and all changes are bad.

We have people everywhere from the Arctic to the equator. People and plants move around. Surely not every critter is perfectly adapted to its local, current zone. We're varied and adaptable.

Plants love CO2, and lately we're runing out. They are starving.

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It's our job to dig up some of that sequestered CO2 and get it back into circulation before all the plants die.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   laser drivers and controllers 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

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