OT: health benefits of drinking raw milk

Because you don't really know what "prove" means.

Jamie has an irrational certainty that drinking raw milk makes him healthier. An objective observer would call this a delusion.

Jamie doesn't have much sense, and his idea of "common sense" should be read as "dangerous delusion".

There are also a lot of people who smoke cigarettes - another dangerous and foolish choice.

None of which he can identify. Pasteurisation slightly changes the taste of milk but nobody has yet demonstrated that it changes its nutritional value. It has been demonstrated that pasteurised milk is less likely to infect you with nasty diseases. Where the diary herds are frequently inspected for infectious diseases, the chance that raw milk will actually infect you with something is low, but finite, as several hundred idiots get to find out every year in the US. The idiots don't always get infected themselves - they are rather more likely to have exposed their kids to infection.

OK, one kid got severely injured falling from a tree. Therefore we need to cut down all the trees and anyone who resists will be beaten, maced and arrested.

Happy now ?

n't been >silly enough to drink raw milk. "

o cut down all the trees and anyone who resists will be beaten, maced and a rrested.

No. Kids climbing trees is exercise, and exploratory behaviour. The occasio nal injury is compensated by the improvement in the rest of the kids.

The advantage of raw milk over pasteurised milk exists purely in Jamie's mu ddled brain. The extra infections don't buy you any advantage that anybody has documented. You'd hope that the extra exposure to infections would at l east buy a lower incidence of asthma - one of the theories explaining the r ising incidence of childhood asthma is that the juvenile immune system isn' t challenged often enough in modern urban environments - but it isn't one o f the advantages ever claimed.

maced and arrested.

anybody has documented. You'd hope that the extra exposure to infections would at least buy a lower incidence of asthma - one of the theories

explaining the rising incidence of childhood asthma is that the juvenile immune system isn't challenged often enough in modern urban environments

- but it isn't one of the advantages ever claimed.

Hi,

Here is a study showing how antibiotics cause obesity:

This is related to raw milk in the sense that antibiotics damage the bodies natural gut flora and microbiome. Drinking pasteurized milk has a similar effect in that it is a mostly sterile food, whereas raw milk and fermented products can replenish and create a healthy microbiome.

cheers, Jamie

Drinking pasteurised milk is not remotely comparable with taking antibiotics.

Most healthy adults have a complex and more or less stable gut flora - the populations change as you go down the gut. Antibiotics can change that population dramatically, often for the worse, by killing off lots of species of bugs.

Drinking pasteurised milk won't change it significantly - the amount of milk you drink may change the environment slightly and the relative numbers of particular bugs may change in consequence, but it won't wreck the ecology.

Drinking raw milk can introduce dangerous bacteria into the gut, and really wreck the ecology.

It "can mean many days of diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting. Less commonly, it can mean kidney failure, paralysis, chronic disorders, and even death."

Jamie really doesn't know what he's talking about.

Antibiotics can change that population dramatically, often for the worse, by killing off lots of species of bugs.

and the relative numbers of particular bugs may change in consequence, but it won't wreck the ecology.

chronic disorders, and even death."

Hi,

Here is a study showing that the bacteria in the food you eat affects brain function:

"The knowledge that signals are sent from the intestine to the brain and that they can be modulated by a dietary change is likely to lead to an expansion of research aimed at finding new strategies to prevent or treat digestive, mental and neurological disorders, said Dr. Emeran Mayer, a professor of medicine (digestive diseases), physiology and psychiatry at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA and the study's senior author."

It follows that mostly sterile pasteurized milk or other sterile foods without bacteria will not have the same effect as foods that are rich in beneficial bacteria such as safely produced raw milk or fermented foods.

Also there are studies shown that mice fed sterile diets with no bacteria in the food develop autism like symptoms:

cheers, Jamie

Twaddle. The extra bacteria you get from raw milk mostly make very little difference to your gut bacteria, because there are lots more bacteria in your gut than in raw milk - unless it is off.

The exceptions are the nasty infectious gut bacteria that secrete their own antibiotic toxins to get rid of the competitive guts in the human gut, leaving you with "diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting".

That can affect your brain - you feel horrible.

Pasteurised milk isn't sterile, and it's not usually part of a bacteria-free diet. Humans rarely get fed bacteria-free broth.

Talking about "autism-like symptoms" in mice is bizarre. Only a gullible twit like Jamie would take that kind of moronic "popular psychology" seriously.

more bacteria in your gut than in raw milk - unless it is off.

in the human gut, leaving you with "diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting".

Hi,

Pasteurized milk is mostly sterile, missing the majority of beneficial microbes. Good microbes come from the soil, and if you think about it, a grass fed cow's raw milk will have a wide assortment of microbes compared to milk from a factory raised cow, even if it was raw milk from the factory.

Also there are enormous benefits to the land to maintain grazing animals for the soil health and simplicity of not having to grow unsustainable monoculture crops.

It has been shown that a big factor in what determines if a person's microbiome is healthy or not is simply variety of different microbes. The more variety, the more healthy, since by definition of variety it means that no single microbe has taken over the microbiome.

Animals, even mice have complex social interactions, the study authors were able to notice a difference: "less sociable and more anxious than wild-type animals" in mice based on a simple dose of bacteria given to them.

cheers, Jamie

"Mostly sterile" is like "a little bit pregnant". Pasteurisation drops the numbers of bacteria in milk to the point where there are few enough of them that they are very unlikely to cause an infection.

Or less beneficial microbes.

Measuring what's in it would be a better idea. Recognising that bad as well as good microbes can comes from the soil (which happens to get covered with cow manure while the cows graze the grass that grow in it) would also be wise.

There's nothing simple about organising optimal grazing.

Sadly, raw milk can get infected by a single nasty microbe, which can proceed to take over your gut flora as well - producing "diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting" ...

When the mice in question had been bug-free - not a natural condition, and one that is vanishingly rare amongst humans.

enough of them that they are very unlikely to cause an infection.

Unfortunately your perspective regarding bacteria sees them primarily as a threat to health.

(which happens to get covered with cow manure while the cows graze the grass that grow in it) would also be wise.

Sustainable grazing practice might seem complicated as it is not taught in school usually, however it is far simpler than the modern system of agriculture that requires a long unsustainable intercontinental supply chain to operate.

"diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting" ...

Here is another study showing the importance of healthy microbes:

"According to the authors, the findings provide experimental evidence that our indigenous microbes contribute to the mechanism that closes the blood-brain barrier before birth. The results also support previous observations that gut microbiota can impact brain development and function."

The potential for various diseases caused by lack of good microbes is much higher than that of pathogenic microbes, especially in modern times where sanitation is understood, it makes perfect sense to use the best of both worlds.

Isolating yourself from supposed threats of bacteria doesn't make you healthy.

cheers, Jamie

No. I'm just aware that there's a small element of the bacterial population that does present a serious danger to health.

You witter on about healthy bacteria - ignoring the fact that pretty much e verybody has a thriving population of healthy bacteria in their gut, and do n't really need a regular supply of new bacteria - and ignore the fact that pasteurisation was invented because the occasional rogue bacteria can get into milk and thrive before doing even better in your gut (much to your dis advantage).

You talk about raw milk from healthy cows being good for you, but the way y ou find out that the cows generating your raw milk aren't healthy is by get ting sick yourself (and your kids getting sick at the same time), As a qual ity control system, this sucks.

om

well > > as good microbes can comes from the soil

ls

If your land needs extra phosphate to grow enough grass to sustain an econo mically viable herd, you may be importing the phosphate from overseas. It t ends to come from mid-ocean islands that have been covered with bird droppi ngs for thousands of years. "Inter-continental" would be a stretch.

That isn't the complicated bit.

and > > one that is vanishingly rare amongst humans.

permeability.html

n."

Idiot. The infant's gut microbiota normally comes from the mother, and is m uch better matched to human needs than a collection of bugs largely derived from the guts of a cow.

Exposing yourself to cow microbiota isn't a good way of developing a near o ptimum human gut biota. Some doctors do use faecal transplants to deal with some disorders of the human gut. They don't use samples from cow or pig gu ts to set up a healthier gut biota in their patients.

Try to think about what you are claiming ...