OT: GM Layoffs

My guess is that the average person won't be able to go down to a Tesla dealer and pick up a Model 3 off the showroom floor until sometime around mid 2020. The Bolt is already in limited production as you say, and they're hoping to produce 30-40k of them by the end of 2017.

The Bolt's drivetrain is based on the proven "Voltec" platform which has nearly a decade worth of in-the-field data and experience behind it at this point. The Model 3 is a "clean sheet" design and a cynic might expect the first gen to be, well, buggy as hell.

Reply to
bitrex
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I'll admit the Model 3 looks quite a bit snazzier, though. The Bolt's Honda CRV-type styling isn't going to set the world on fire.

Reply to
bitrex

Bullshit. They would just buy the production facilities at a discount. They'd be back in production in months.

Idiot. The GM factories wouldn't have been blown up.

The only thing they did is prolong the agony, at *huge* taxpayer expense. The problems weren't corrected, just papered over.

Reply to
krw

Except GM's profits have been booming compared to the other two of the "Big Three" US manufacturers for several years now?

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People aren't currently much interested in buying gas-slurping mid-size cars like the Impala, Lacrosse, and some of the Cadillac offerings. They're doing just fine elsewhere, though.

Reply to
bitrex

Like selling a shitton of Volts! ;-)

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Reply to
bitrex

expense. The problems weren't corrected, just papered over. "

Which is pretty much what they have been doing since 1933.

Reply to
jurb6006

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It's more that if you have enough money, you can cheaply buy up everybody w ho had less who went bust in the collapse.

Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" talks about some practical examples.

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Of course they should be working hard to shift the ex-employees of obsolete enterprises into new jobs in new industries. The Danes spend real money on re-training their unemployed, and it seems to work, or at least as well as it can in a country with 5.6 million people. Most of the new jobs are like ly to be over the border in Germany, so the EC should do well out of it.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

That seems to have been what Hoover thought in 1930. As Keynes pointed out, nobody hires more people during a depression, and it becomes remarkably difficult to sell any cars (or anything much else).

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

at

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bankrupt and out of business, the other car companies would have taken up the slack, hired more people , and sold more cars.

And the people who knew how to run them? Production facilities work because the people who run them know them intimately. Bankrupt the company and the good employees get new jobs fairly quickly, and aren't available to run th e production facilities for the new employer.

But the work force would have been dispersed.

True, to the extent that the irresponsible banking that had caused the GFC didn't provoke any prosecutions and long prison terms.

It's wrong for the reasons laid out by John Maynard Keynes - a prolonged de pression persists because it destroys investor confidence, and leads to a c ontraction in the economy - by 25% between 1929 and 1933.

The *huge* taxpayer expense (in paying off a higher national debt) bought o ff the shrinkage of the economy - which did shrink by 1.6% for one quarter, before the stimulus spending got going, but has grown (if not all that muc h) ever since.

Keynes is a bit intellectually demanding for krw, who prefers his economic theories to be simple, rather than predictive.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

The auto market, over the last five years, has been exploding. It's difficult *not* to make money. Hell, even Elon Musk figured out a way to get rich.

Reply to
krw

A very real problem is the perception of people that they *can't* be retrained. People think the world should remain the same as it always has been for them. But things happen and the job market changes.

I was reading about auto jobs and some have been outsourced, but when the factories remain, many jobs are still lost to automation. Manufacturing jobs are going to decrease even if you built walls to keep the jobs in, unless you build other walls to keep the robots out!

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

I'm already in the queue. Didn't get in too early, but they say if you get on the list now you should get a car by mid 2018. Not sure how overly optimistic that is.

Really? Tesla doesn't have any experience with the other, how many, cars they been selling? The Tesla may well be a lot more of a car too. Will the Bolt ever have an auto-pilot? I don't know if it has the hardware for it. I'm also not sure it will be large enough for me. I want ^H^H^H^H NEED a car large enough for my torso. I'm taller than average and most of it is above the waist. That's one reason why I drive a truck. The Bolt looks a bit on the small size. The only reason I want to take a look is because they say for a compact car it is "size A on the outside and size B on the inside". I haven't met anyone who can turn than into something tangible, but sitting in one will tell. The roof is also rather sloped in the back. Might be hard to put a kayak on top.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

I hate the model 3 front. I've seen some photo-shopped pictures and I will be buying a fake grill for mine. To me the Bolt is a better looking car although I'm not crazy about the Chevy front end unless they make it a bit smaller than on other models. Maybe they are going for the RAM truck look?

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

Why is Elon Musk denigrated for making billions of dollars while Trump is applauded for the same thing?

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 6:33:06 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote :

Another way is that if GWM had gone bankrupt and out of business, the oth er car companies would have taken up the slack, hired more people , and s old more cars.

t, nobody hires more people during a depression, and it becomes remarkably difficult to sell any cars (or anything much else).

You need to stop believing that everything is still like it was in 1929. T here are huge differences. For example Social Security. Non existent in

1929. Now provides millions with money to spend. Ditto with private retir ement plans. Also IRA's. Most economists believe that a depression is not possible now.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

The Donald didn't have government subsidies go directly into his pockets.

Reply to
krw

LOL! Social security is a bare minimum stop gap. If depressions are not possible, what exactly did we go through the last 10 years? Oh, that's right, it was only a "recession".

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

Perhaps because Trump merely claims to have made billions of dollars. The billions of dollars he has lost - mostly for other people - are better documented.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

te:

ther car companies would have taken up the slack, hired more people , and sold more cars.

out, nobody hires more people during a depression, and it becomes remarkabl y difficult to sell any cars (or anything much else).

There are huge differences. For example Social Security. Non existent in 1929. Now provides millions with money to spend. Ditto with private ret irement plans. Also IRA's. Most economists believe that a depression is n ot possible now.

It sure looked like one was starting at the end of 2007. What most economis ts believe is pretty much what rich people want them to believe - their pre dictive powers stop being impressive when you move them away from working o ut which fat cat will endow them a professorship.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Trump plays business as a zero sum game. He only wins if you lose. In reality it doesn't need to be that way. But if you don't actually bring any value to the table, you have nothing to give to the other person. But I guess a name has value, seems people pay to stay places with his name on them.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

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