OT. GM beats Tesla

es

jority of

The cheapest sedan was a

pickup was a

0 Tesla Model X

al combustion driven

rts

enty years or so

nd 5 years

r of

er

ssil

? At some

. o

ple

ople

test

ost

s can put some charging

Level 2 charging gives around 24 MPH for most EVs (assuming 6 kW and 4 M/kW h). So if you shop at the mall for an hour you get more charging than you likely used to make that trip. But no, level 2 at the super market is not going to give you the charge you need to do a daily commute from the burbs to the city... depending I guess.

I needed a charge once and the level 2 I tried to use was tied up with a br and new (temp tags with today's date) Leaf, but fully charged and just occu pying the spot. There was no way to get the car disconnected even after a phone call to the charger company. So I had to run around looking for anot her charger. That was over a year ago and Tesla has a charging station a m ile away. That works for me!

--

  Rick C. 

  -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

My ideal EV has two seats, a 100-something mile battery pack, 0-60 time of about 4-5 seconds.

Kinda like a Tesla Roadster but that doesn't cost $200,000. I'll be waiting a long time I expect...

Lol you called the charger company and expected them to do something.

I called a mall property manager one time soon after I got the Volt to complain about people parking their gas cars in the charger spots he more or less told me to piss off. I don't bother calling anyone about that sort of stuff anymore there's no one to call, nobody cares.

Four hours of driving sounds dreadful, I've probably only done it a couple times in my life that I recall. I drove from Boston to eastern Ohio one time when I was in my early 20s in winter it was horrible. Yeah it was because of a girl don't judge I know better these days.

Anyway I have read in olden times there was a thing called a "through sleeper", you could just get on a railroad sleeping car in Boston or NYC and go to bed and you'd be in Florida early the next afternoon it sounds amazing, particularly for pandemic-world.

:

ing to

oes

ity of drivers?

hicles

store

so

y, electric SUVs. But the principle is right. In around 5 years EVs will have achieved half of the total passenger car sales, in the US at least. I will probably be another five years for the number of fossil fueled vehicl es on the road to drop significantly, say by more than 30%. During that ti me gasoline prices will be in the dumpster slowing adoption of EVs. But EV s have inherently lower operating costs. So the trend will continue as the production costs of batteries drop.

vehicles longer. But at some point ~10 years as the number of fossil fuel ed vehicles on the road drop the demand for that type of mechanic will drop and drop rapidly. Autos don't fare well with age. At some point they get replaced simply because people don't like unreliability.

. They do so much more than sell gas because everyone who drives has to go their once a week to fill up. With EVs most people will never go there an d of those who can't charge at home, they will be around for some time, 30 minutes or so. I suppose a lot of people can use them like gas stations.. Pull up, plug in, get a cup of coffee pick up the morning paper, eat your egg sandwich and be on your way with another 75-100 miles of range. The ba tteries charge fastest and last longest if not charged fully. 20-50% gives a very fast charge, up to 2 kWH per minute in my car.

l mostly be done at work and while shopping using the excess solar generati on people seem to get so upset about. In an 8 hour day most EVs can be ful ly charged in a work day.

he

h. It's not uncommon to find them full if you arrive late. Level 2 chargi ng is not very costly. My tank of electrons at night rates is around $5 to $8 bucks. About the same as the cost of providing the free breakfast I ex pect.

0 mph, so 280 miles (not total, I mean useful range, so maybe 350 or 400 to tal) and charge in an hour so you can have a meal while stopped. Then you can get a charge overnight allowing good distance in a day. My car is only short of that by about 70 miles or 25%. I fully expect 350 or 400 miles t o be the norm in a few years as improvements to batteries are made. Tesla is already making a change in battery chemistry that is primarily to get aw ay from using more expensive elements in the fabrication like cobalt if I r ecall correctly. Still, there is tons and tons of research going on in tha t domain. Rapid improvements can be expected, even if only incremental, in not too much time the EV will be the main stream car for nearly everyone.

rnment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

Add four more seats and 200 miles and you described my X. Well, it's not * that* slow. So I guess it doesn't meet any of your requirements.

I'd like to have an electric truck with a 350 mile range and not a monster like a full sized pickup and not bizarro like the Tesla "thing". With the huge emphasis on size with all the US makers it will probably take an Asia company to provide it.

Not sure I'd buy an EV from a non-Tesla company as yet. Tesla not only has the best batteries, they do the best job of protecting the batteries. The Leaf is notorious for letting the battery get too hot causing a shorter li fe. I don't know about all the others, but most EV makers need a few years to play catch up. Maybe by 2024 or '25 the market will be a bit more leve l.

--

  Rick C. 

  +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

ent mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

Sometime it needs government actions. I wrote to CalTran (CA Dept of Trans ) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest stops a re the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. They haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest areas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

Envision big, long power lines. As is, rest stops don't use a lot of power.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

Science teaches us to doubt. 

  Claude Bernard

rnment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

ns) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest stops are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. They haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest areas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

That's why it takes lots of planning. Solar panels and battery buffers are possible solutions. Fortunately, they are usually in the middle of nowher e, cheap lands for solar farms. By the way, although some argue that free power is socialism. That's the quickest way to get it done. The critical areas are usually funded by federal money. It's easier to just fund it out of operating funds. Figuring how and what to "charge for charging" almost need an act of congress.

If you want outrageously expensive, unreliable charging stations. I suppose they could have a lot full of diesel generators out back for nights and rainy/cloudy/snowy months.

Chop down all the trees. Nobody likes trees.

Get what done?

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

Science teaches us to doubt. 

  Claude Bernard

overnment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

Trans) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest sto ps are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. T hey haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest ar eas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

re possible solutions.

solar farms.

Invisible trees? There are more cars than trees on I-58 and I-15. And no shortage of sun-lights. Yes, backup generators might still be necessary so metimes.

quickest way to get it done.

Get the chargers installed.

ust fund it out of operating funds. Figuring how and what to "charge for ch arging" almost need an act of congress.

nment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

ns) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest stops are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. Th ey haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest are as are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

I am in a position of having free access to the best EV charging network i n the world. If you drive any other brand of EV or even if you have a Tesl a, but the charging is not free, you will have a rather different experienc e.

Yes, I agree that chargers at rest stops would be useful. But there really aren't enough rest stops and I seriously doubt they can ever have enough c hargers at one to make much of a difference. I believe you are the guy who was driving a very limited range EV and charging every 50 miles or so. So I'm not sure your perspective is very relevant to most EV owners or potent ial owners since your experience is so far from the norm.

But my government involvement comment was about the rate of providing charg ing facilities. It won't require government involvement other than perhaps legislating that apartments and condos allow for facilities in some manner . But with enough time even those will respond to market pressures. If yo u are driving an EV you will be much more willing to live in a place that h as available charging than one that does not.

The one Supercharger I am disappointment in is near here. A county seat an d largest city in nearly 50 miles in any direction would be Culpeper. It i s also nicely centered between charging at Haymarket and Charlottesville, a bout 50 miles from either. It also is a connector with roads converging fr om six directions. But they put a Supercharger in Madison, barely a whistl e stop, 10 miles to the south with much less access from anywhere but the o ne main road. Seems they have a Sheetz while Culpeper does not.

The power of the Sheetz! I expect Sheetz is giving them a good deal on the thing since Sheetz likely makes money on the pit stops even if they give a way the electricity. My understanding is they make very, very little on th e retail aspect of the gasoline. It's just there to get people to come ins ide.

--

  Rick C. 

  ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

rnment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

ans) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest stop s are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. T hey haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest ar eas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

Funny this guy. He thinks that rest stops are a long way from civilization . I guess that's why they don't have chargers in Quartzsite, AZ. Oh, wait , they DO! Talk about the middle of nowhere. I hope you enjoy hamburgers. That's the only restaurant food they have.

--

  Rick C. 

  --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

ernment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

ans) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest stops are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. The y haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest area s are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

in the world. If you drive any other brand of EV or even if you have a Tesl a, but the charging is not free, you will have a rather different experienc e.

y aren't enough rest stops and I seriously doubt they can ever have enough chargers at one to make much of a difference. I believe you are the guy who was driving a very limited range EV and charging every 50 miles or so. So I'm not sure your perspective is very relevant to most EV owners or potenti al owners since your experience is so far from the norm.

I wish you are right and Tesla drivers don't need public charger. But when they are there, they usually hog them up for long hours. And we can't pla n public charging network just for Tesla drivers.

overnment mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

Trans) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest sto ps are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. T hey haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest ar eas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

k in the world. If you drive any other brand of EV or even if you have a Te sla, but the charging is not free, you will have a rather different experie nce.

lly aren't enough rest stops and I seriously doubt they can ever have enoug h chargers at one to make much of a difference. I believe you are the guy w ho was driving a very limited range EV and charging every 50 miles or so. S o I'm not sure your perspective is very relevant to most EV owners or poten tial owners since your experience is so far from the norm.

en they are there, they usually hog them up for long hours. And we can't p lan public charging network just for Tesla drivers.

Not sure what you are talking about. Why do Tesla drivers "hog" chargers l onger than anyone else?

--

  Rick C. 

  --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

If you talked to him like you do here, I don't doubt it.

government mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvements.

f Trans) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest s tops are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from drivers. They haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in rest areas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

ork in the world. If you drive any other brand of EV or even if you have a Tesla, but the charging is not free, you will have a rather different exper ience.

eally aren't enough rest stops and I seriously doubt they can ever have eno ugh chargers at one to make much of a difference. I believe you are the guy who was driving a very limited range EV and charging every 50 miles or so. So I'm not sure your perspective is very relevant to most EV owners or pot ential owners since your experience is so far from the norm.

hen they are there, they usually hog them up for long hours. And we can't p lan public charging network just for Tesla drivers.

longer than anyone else?

because they have bigger battery.

ny government mandates, just a bit of time and a few more small improvement s.

of Trans) years ago about putting chargers in rest stops. I told them rest stops are the perfect places to charge EV and discharge fluids from driver s. They haven't done the one i mentioned, but several other chargers in res t areas are "coming soon". Hopefully, very soon.

twork in the world. If you drive any other brand of EV or even if you have a Tesla, but the charging is not free, you will have a rather different exp erience.

really aren't enough rest stops and I seriously doubt they can ever have e nough chargers at one to make much of a difference. I believe you are the g uy who was driving a very limited range EV and charging every 50 miles or s o. So I'm not sure your perspective is very relevant to most EV owners or p otential owners since your experience is so far from the norm.

when they are there, they usually hog them up for long hours. And we can't plan public charging network just for Tesla drivers.

s longer than anyone else?

If you are talking about level 2 chargers then they take longer to charge, but if you think about it for a minute, that still doesn't mean they use th e chargers more because it also means they come to the chargers less often.

The only reason why they would be "hogging" the chargers is because they ha ve sold so many of them and they are getting driven more than other brands of EVs. The total time Teslas are on the chargers is not related to the si ze of the batteries. It's related to the number of miles the cars are driv en. If you car has a bigger gas tank does it mean you will spend more time at the pump? What if you had a gas tank a tiny fraction of what it holds, does that mean you can fill in 10 seconds once a week? No, it means you b arely make it to work and have to fill up before coming home. So you end u p spending more time at the gas stations because of the time it takes to co nnect to the pump and get your credit card processed.

Currently Teslas are better EVs than others because the company spent over

10 years and billions of dollars on designing them. After some years the o ther car companies will catch up. That's inevitable. That's why I won't b uy their stock at the current price. It isn't over priced for what the com pany will be in a few years, but it doesn't leave room for continued growth in the market cap. By the time the company catches up with the expectatio ns by the market, the other auto makers will be selling other very good EVs and Tesla will be one of the big four US automakers. But where can they g o from there? As this thread headline indicates, GM is already ahead in au tonomous capabilities. You make money on every car you sell maybe, but you get filthy stinking rich selling software features for the cars. Ask Bill Gates if there's money in software.

It is interesting that the other automakers discounted Tesla so heavily. I t reminds me a bit of the digital watch paradigm shift. Timex adapted, but many other companies never made the transition. I'm not sure all the auto makers will make the EV transition. We'll see.

--

  Rick C. 

  -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Hey, you're not much of sweetheart yourself, sometimes.

Anyway, it's a bit of an entitlement mentality to believe anyone is going to remove a paying customer from a charging spot just cuz they've been there longer than one would like.

Some jurisdictions or properties will remove ICE cars from those spots because that person is just a jerk or can't read or both and it's a decent revenue stream for the jurisdiction, the offending party really doesn't have much of a leg to stand on other than claiming to be illiterate. but most places try not to offend the market segment of the service, even when they aren't entirely courteous about how they use it.

Nobody is fining or towing a car for staying too long unless demand is really high, and that's not most chargers. The ChargePoint phone reps like most phone reps don't have the power to do anything much, if it's on private property like a mall what happens to cars there is entirely in the hands of the business or property owner ChargePoint has no power. and they're not in the business of pissing off customers by disconnecting or removing them without their consent.

No, I don't make demands, I call up and ask, as Mom always said it never hurts to ask, all they can say is no. And you call up and ask and you get the impression they're annoyed you're even asking. That is all...