OT: effects of gun control

Guess which state has the higher population density?

Oh...

Hmm, I wonder. A more useful statistic might be a "social crowding effect", though I'd have to ask a sociologist if there's any quantitative measure for it. Theory being, crime -- reported crime, mind you -- probably has a correlation with the population density.

More criminals * more people to commit crimes against * greater social anonymity = higher rate of [reported] crime per capita. Makes sense enough.

If this were known quantitatively, statistics could be adjusted for population density. This would also make BFE look a lot more dangerous than you might otherwise realize...

Tim

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So as a tourist in the USA I could pop into a NH gunshop and legally buy one?

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Dirk

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Being from NH, that population density is not the issue.

Chicago proved what strict gun controls do: the murder rate (and violent crime rate involving guns) went up sharply as soon as Chicago implemented its oppressive restrictions on gun ownership. The people knew what was going on, but the politicans were never willing to admit they were wrong, wrong, wrong about it.

Nope. Only legal residents of the state (any state) may purchase guns. We don't want our visitors to be safe (nor the residents of Chicago, DC, NY, and many other leftist enclaves).

I think it has more to do with what areas have more democrats. Democrats are bad people.

Nah.

Like the sheriff's daughter said about the aliens in "Spaced Invaders" -

"They're not bad, they're just stupid!"

Cheers! Rich

fr8dog had written this in response to

:

If you're unfortunate to live in the Peoples Republik of NY & want a gun the answer is simple. IGNORE ALL UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS. You dont need permit, ie "permission to exercise a RIGHT. Your "permit" to own & carry ANY type of firearm is called THE 2ND AMENDMENT.

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=A0We

and

Wrong. Depending on laws of the state you're in and the laws of your state of residence, you *may* be able to buy a long gun (rifle or shotgun) in a neighboring state. Resident aliens *used* to be able to purchase firearms, but following a shooting in 1993

and the political rise of a widow of one of the victims and a subsequent shooting by a Palistinian* at the Empire State Building this is no longer allowed.

*no political or religious motives were attributed to the shootings

So, no, you can't BUY a firearm, but there are plenty of shooting ranges that will rent you one (to shoot at the range). There are even ranges that rent select fire/full auto weapons.

Interesting article on gun control here:

Hope This Helps! Rich

Wrong. We were discussing handguns.

I can't follow your links. Dump Google if you want people to follow you.

I said no differently. I travel across state lines to a range that will gladly rent me handguns (it's indoor, so full auto is frowned upon).

Well..the answer seems to be a yes, but...yah gots te weight fur the bakkgrnd czheck..

Just use a bit of cut and paste. First ref: Colin Ferguson is an African-Jamaican mass murderer who was convicted of murdering six people and injuring nineteen others on the Long Island Rail Road in Garden City, New York. At the time of the killings, he was a Permanent Resident of the U.S., with a Green Card, by virtue of his marriage to an American citizen. He will be incarcerated in an American prison for the rest of his life.

On December 7, 1993, as the train pulled into the Merillon Avenue Station, Ferguson pulled out his gun and started firing at passengers. He killed six and wounded nineteen before being stopped by three of the passengers: Kevin Blum, Mark McEntee, and Mike O'Connor. Ferguson's trial was notable for a number of unusual developments, including his firing of his defense counsel and insisting on representing himself and questioning his own victims on the stand.

Ferguson was convicted on February 17, 1995, of Murder for the deaths of the six passengers who died of their injuries. He was also convicted of Attempted Murder for wounding nineteen passengers. He is currently (2010) serving his sentence of 315-years-and-8-months to Life at the Attica Correctional Facility in western New York. His current earliest possible parole date is August 6, 2309.

** The second reference starts with a long background, then the "meat" copied below, and then a rather long description of her political dealings against guns: McCarthy was born Carolyn Cook in Brooklyn, raised in Mineola. Her father was a boilermaker and her mother worked at Woolworth's.[2] In her youth, she was an athlete and wanted to become a physical education teacher but found reading challenging and later was diagnosed with dyslexia. After caring for her boyfriend injured from a car accident, McCarthy decided to work as a Licensed Practical Nurse.[3] She lived with her family in Mineola, a suburban area about twenty miles outside New York City on Long Island. On December 7, 1993, her husband, Dennis, was killed and her son, Kevin, severely injured, on a Long Island Rail Road commuter train at the Merillon Avenue station, when a mass murderer, Colin Ferguson, opened fire on random unarmed passengers.[4] Ferguson killed six and wounded 19 others.[5] McCarthy responded to the crime by launching a campaign for additional gun control that eventually propelled her to Congress in 1996 on the Democratic ticket. ** The third reference (short version): Abu Kamal opened fire at the observation deck of the Empire State Building on February 23, 1997, killing one person and wounding six before shooting himself in the head, knocking his dentures out. He was later taken to a hospital where he died more than five hours later.

He began shooting shortly after 5 p.m. on the 86th floor observation deck using a .380-caliber Beretta handgun that he apparently bought in Florida several weeks earlier.

Witnesses said the gunman shouted, "Are you from Egypt?" during the shooting. NYPD said they did not know whether it was said in an effort to spare or identify potential victims.

His passport said he was from Ramallah, on the West Bank, and entered the United States on Christmas Eve.

** EOF **

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If you have shot a shotgun very much you would not be advocating using a pistol for home defense. I doubt if there is any skeet ranges where one can try using a pistol to hit clay pigeons. But I would like to see you try to shoot a round of skeet with a handgun. I would expect you would miss all twenty five birds. I think that refutes your statement that it is easy to miss with a shotgun. Much easier to miss with a pistol. Especially true in poor lighting where it would be hard to see the pistol sights.

As Paul Hovnanian says, I have both pistols and shotguns. I would always choose a shotgun for home defense. Think about it. A pistol is what one carries when one does not expect to need a gun. Easy to carry is the pistols prime advantage. How many armies do you see armed with pistols? How many people buy pistols to hunt?

=20 Dan

Thanks. For some reason I couldn't get them to work last night.

Clay pigeons are different matter. Home intruders don't fly in the air, they don't move that fast, they are usually at much closer range so that birdshot didn't have a chance to spread and that birdshot that breaks a clay pigeon won't make any harm to an intruder, especially to a one that high on drugs or whatever.

Sure, nobody shoots clay pigeons with a pistol. And nobody shoots them with AK-47. There is a shotgun for this.

As for pistol sights, just get yourself a set of night sights. And it is not that easy to miss at a close range if you shoot your weapon regularly and have a feeling for it. You don't need sights at all to hit a human at a close range. It might be not the optimal hit but you always have a followup shot after the first hit that you can place much better than the first one.

Sure. But not with #8 Bird Shot. I do also have 9-shot Mossberg 590 in my bedroom but it is loaded with 2 #4 Bucks/3 #00 Bucks/3 Slugs. There is absolutely no reason in keeping a shotgun with #8 Birdshot. You can use blanks (if they exist) with almost the same result.

And I do also have 9mm Glock in the drawer at my side :) And I would reach for my Glock first. Shotgun is big and bulky and you have to exersize constantly to just get downstairs with it less for shooting in the process. It is way easier to do with a pistol that is much smaller and don't get stuck in the railings.

And I do also have several AK-47 and PSL-54C rifles for a longer range :)

All armies are armed with pistols. But that is not their primary weapon, it is only used in closed combat. The primary weapon is not a shotgun either, it is usually a select fire rifle. Something like AK or AR or similar.

And even if they do use shotguns for some special purposes they never load them with #8 birdshot.

As for hunting, #8 birdshot is only good for small birds. You can not stop even a coyote with that.

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e s

If you look closely you will see I never mentioned # 8 shot.

Dan

Sorry, I didn't mean to target you :) That was the guy that stated #8 shot just penetrated 2 sheets or so of drywall while pistol bullets penetrated them all.

I agree that shotgun is a very potent weapon if used with proper ammo. It would've been even better if they had allowed them in short barrel lengths. And I do keep one in Cruiser Ready state in my bedroom.

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There is a minimum barrel length in Florida. I cut one down for someone, many years ago.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Yep. It is 18 inches for the barrel and 26 inches overall. It is not a Florida restriction, it is country-wide (NFA.)

That is still too long to be used as a primary home defence weapon. It is not easy to maneuver such a long stick when one is e.g. on a stairway. There simply not enough room for it. And don't forget that it kicks like a mule so it is not all that easy to control it unless it is firm against your shoulder. Pistol is way easier to use and it is almost equally effective provided you are using the right ammo. No that mule's kick either so one can place several bullets into the threat in rapid succession.

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