How are you going to get China to pay a carbon tax? How will you persuade poor people in Asia and Africa that they can't have electricity, or transportation, or fresh water, so that Manhattan doesn't have to prepare for flooding?
-- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
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Herrnstein is dead. Murray has a long history of misunderstanding stuff in away that makes it look attractive to rich Republicans.
It's a weird kind of subsidy that makes your health care system half again as expensive as equally good (and universal) health care system in other countries.
Mostly because you don't spend the money where it matters. Getting the kids fed is more important than raising teacher salaries and building new schools.
I don't know what you thought you meant by that, but in the US low rent-areas don't have the local tax base to support high-quality primary and secondary education. It is a notorious problem of funding schools locally, which is why most countries spread the load more widely. In Australia the individual states run their own education systems, and regularly appeal for federal subsidies - not that Australia is any kind of educational paradise, as the state-funded education system is seriously under-funded to the point where pretty much everybody who can afford it puts their kids into fee-charging schools.
In fact it does. Truth in advertising.
Japan grew at about 7% per year for many years until it caught up. China is currently growing at 9% per year, and has been growing that fast for a few decades now.
a lot of countries are doing nearly as well.
Perhaps.You actually need a really ill-informed population for cargo cults, and playing catch-up depends on getting a high literacy rate before you start.
I didn't say that it did. There's a fifty year gap between Commodore Matthew Perry's visit in 1854, and the Japanese navy sinking a Russian fleet in 1905 ( battle of Tsushima Straits).
Which particular "many things"?
Of course. They are working in a country where capital is easier to find, skilled help is easier to hire, and the infrastructure is a whole lot better. And don't underestimate the self-selection involved in becoming an immigrant.
When I was a graduate student back in the 1960, I made extra money as a "demonstrator" in the chemistry labs, supervising groups of ten undergraduates. The Columbo Plan meant that three of those students came from overseas. I rapidly earned that I didn't have to worry about Indian students from anywhere except India or Chinese students from anywhere except China - they could cope. The others needed quite a bit of help.
Not to mention massive corruption.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Enlightened self-interest. In fact they are working to reduce their carbon foot-print right now - or rather to reduce its rate of expansion, Shutting down inefficient (8%) coal-fired power plants and replacing them with much bigger more efficient (40%) coal-fired plants is a definite step in the right direction.
China is distinctly marginal on agricultural production, and has very real and immediate fears about the consequences of continuing anthropogenic global warming - not enough to persuade them to actually shrink their carbon footprint yet, but enough to keep them motivated.
They can have electricity and transportation - we've just got to make solar power even cheaper and easier to store. It's already popular in Africa, where there's a shortage of long-distance power transmission lines, and solar power is cheaper than a diesel generator, but it could be a lot cheaper yet.
You've been suckered by the denialist propaganda which claims that no carbon dioxide emission means no power, where in fact it just means somewhat more expensive power today, with every prospect that solar power will be the cheaper option in a decade or so.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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.I'm afraid that the insanity is all yours. You obviously can't blame any individual hurricane on global warming, but warmer oceans mean more hurricanes.
Check your recent copies of PNAS for the evidence.
Perhaps, but he paid attention to his lecturers when he was an undergraduate, and he's listened to well-informed advice since then, at tactic that you might think about emulating.
New Orleans isn't on the East Coast? And we are talking about progressively increasing frequencies - "annual events" is looking quite a way ahead.
The east coast (and the west coast) might be coping with a 6 metre higher sea level by then, if the Greenland Ice Cap had gotten around to sliding off into the sea in the meantime.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Something that is important to understand about the difference between weather and climate is that weather changes every year, while climate is a consistent change in the long term average that persists over many decades to many millennia. We simply do not yet have enough records to detect AGW reliably.
Also if you plot the graphs correctly the temperature changes happen hundreds to thousands of years AFTER the CO2 changes. The correct time sequence breaks their most popular argument because effect cannot occur before cause.
$90,000,000.00
kinda laughable to think of certain SED regulars who brag about how much money they make.
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5%.And the least interference from bureaucratic (meritocracy in practice) idiots like massive HR departments.
+1?-)
But the Ozone hole IS real, and the Chlorine cloud that is there with it is as well.
We can scrub that Chlorine cloud, and we should be doing that. That is what a good airship is for. We could easily make a couple hundred autonomous scrubbers.
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Why should "we" "admit" what was a fraud all along? Take a real and hard look at the ice core data, making very sure that you understand times arrow on the graphs. Cause cannot come after effect. QED AGW is a massive political fraud that bullied some weak "scientists" into supporting it.
r=2012
Meritocracy is just getting jobs done by the people best qualified to do them.
The term was originally invented (in 1958) to satirise a particular concept of "merit" which had more to do with passing examinations than getting things done, and carries a number of negative connotations.
The whole problem with HR departments is that they aren't equipped to monitor real merit and aren't good enough at their job to realise it.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney > > +1 > > ?-)
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Don't be naive. Exxon-Mobil alone has contributed more than $20 million to the denialist propaganda lobbies. That buys a lot of deceitful web-sites and misleading articles in the media.
Just the great bulk of it.
Really? Got any examples?
Check our the serious global warming literature from the peer-reviewed journals and contrast it with denialist rubbish. Then have another think about what "ad hominem" means.
e . sThere's nothing vague about the scenarios, just quite a lot of uncertainty about how much CO2 will do what amount of damage, and how soon. The damage is a given.
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.You'd like to think so, but I'm afraid that that is just wishful thinking. Anthropogenic global warming isn't going to go away if you keep your head buried firmly in the sand.
Some people get their fun in strange ways. Coping with a 6 metre sea level rise isn't my idea of fun, but civil engineers might see it as a challenge.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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It might help if you also understood that the "global warming" involved in ending past ice ages wasn't driven by rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere but by the Milankovitch Effect - the changing incidence of solar radiation as the earth's orbit precessed
The accompanying increases in CO2 levels were an effect, not a cause (CO2 is less soluble in warm water than in cold)
What you think is evidence of fraud by scientists is evidence of incomprehension on your part. The denialist press has sold you a bill of goods and you have fallen for it.
Great sloganising. Utterly defective logic.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Pity about that. In actual fact, we do.
Josephkk recycles one of the denialist propaganda machines less convincing lies. He's effectively confusing the consequences of the Milankovitch effect with anthropogenic global warming, and drawing a a thoroughly fatuous false conclusion.
Great parroting, zero comprehension.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
This really should not be so hard for participants in an electronics group to understand. It is mystifying to me why this keeps on being trotted out here as evidence against AGW, when in fact it supports it.
Correct. In case it is still not clear, over medium term timescales temperature and CO2 have a mutual positive feedback relationship. Which one lags depends on which one is being externally forced. Right now we are forcing the CO2, so it is temperature that lags. Historically, sometimes temperature is forced by other factors, like Bills Milankovitch cycles, so it is the CO2 that lags.
-- John Devereux
On Oct 30, 10:53 am, John Larkin
Along rivers, systems of flood plains, wetlands, parkland and dry holding ponds work better, if applied cumulatively along the river. Much cheaper than flood walls and the maintenance costs are low too.
Our town basically vacated entire neighborhoods that were in 100 year flood plains, to let them go back to being just that, flood plains.
We're not like New Orleans, eager to rebuild in a freakin' flood plain.
NYC probably should have more buffer zone between the beach and sanctioned housing. Beach front and barrier island houses/businesses should be AT OWNER RISK and with no flood insurance or disaster help from government.
If somebody wants to build a house on a freakin' barrier island, then THEY should accept all risk.
If you live in the Midwest and a tornado rips your house or business to shreds, FEMA doesn't give you a dime unless it tears out an entire large town and gets a Presidential declaration as a disaster area.
And FEMA max payout is 28K per owner occupied house whether it was a 50K shack or a McMansion.
What's a piddly $28K from FEMA going to do for NYC homes at their prices?
Lots of individuals will be delayed waiting for insurance adjusters, FEMA. Some properties will be in limbo because the banks can't figure out which one actually owns the mortgage, etc.
Some properties that were very much repairable will be tied up in mortgage hell or city government hell. City owned but fixable? Federal rules prevent contractors from making more than 10% profit by buying and fixing them.
So contractors buy them from city and pad the expense side by running up bogus payroll to all of their buddies and cousins who live out of state.
Just so ON PAPER they profit less than 10%.
I'm sure that UNIONS will add some trouble to the mix.
Yech.
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Today's New Scientist (3 November 2102, no.2889) has an interesting article about the end of the last ice age "The Great Thaw" on pages
32-35, which reports on the latest work on what actually happened, from the start of the thaw some 20,000 years ago through the Younger Dryas, some 12,000 years ago. Apparently the process started in the norther hemisphere, stalled there when the Gulf Stream got turned off for the first time, then moved down to the southern hemisphere, where a great chunk of CO2 got cooked out of the southern ocean, then moved north again - complicated stuff.-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Too many 'Airheads Gesturing Wildly'. ;-)
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Excuse you, Bill moved the goalposts from ice cores (which do not support AGW) to Milankovitch cycles which have _nothing_ to do with AGW.
Check the records more closely, for all previous cycles CO2 lags not leads, moreover the record length since the industrial revolution is NOT long enough to make _any_ _worthwhile_ conclusions.
Nothing of the kind. Just facts you don't like. Remember, Al Gore IS a politician.
Example: Hansen went about altering existing scientific results about satellite temperature data because it *needed* to agree with AGW theory better.
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Thanks George. 1 foot per century is not all that scary.
?-)
The linear looking slope since 1850 doesn't at all match the nonlinear CO2 slope over time. Looks like sea levels have been rising for a long, long time. We are in an inter-glacial now.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
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Sadly for any claim you might have had to be taken seriously, the ice core data does support AGW. The problem with Milankovitch's theory was always that while he got the timing right, his effect was much too small to explain the 3.5C difference in global temperature between ice ages and interglacials.
The Milankovitch warming turns out to have been more of a trigger that flipped the earth between two more or less stable climatic states. About half the warming was actually driven by CO2 coming out of solution in the warmer oceans and ending up as extra greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, while most of the rest was due to the loss of ice and snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere - vegetation absorbs more of the sun's heat.
As such, the ice core data is strong evidence that atmospheric CO2 levels are important.
Wrong. But since you lack the wit to comprehend the implications of the ice core data, it isn't surprising that you lack the wit to comprehend the additional evidence that has come to light - over the last decade or so - that further supports Mann's hockey-stick curve.
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It wasn't Hansen who found the errors in the Alabama satellite data, and the erroneous data was in conflict with other data from other sources. If there were any scientists at fault in that little episode, it was Spencer and Christy who were remarkably slow to get their house in order. Presumably they were more comfortable with the odd results which fitted with their fundamentalist prejudices than they are with the corrected results, which don't. I doubt that they were consciously cheating, but that sort of situation doesn't do good things for the motivation to get something done.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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