optical sweep generator

I just received the manual for the unit I'm inspired by.

They used interchangable detectors, but the gratings were factory instal led. They were running from 200 nm to 4.5 microns in five bands depending on in stalled grating, and which detector option you ordered. So basically each grating covered a band. By fortunate co-incidence, the Thorlabs grating has identical specs to the IR module for the band we're interested in.

I've found a US company that makes a Si detector bonded to your choic e of infrared detector, in a TO Can. Samples are 130$ each with web orderin g, otherwise the broad diodes I've found for 500 nm to 1800 nm come from o ur favorite difficult to deal with detector / lamp supplier at the House of the Rising Sun. They must be very fond of the broad range photodiode, b ecause they are not inexpensive.

So one diode choices can cover say 600 to 1800, 330 to 1800 or 330 to 220

  1. The dual diodes come with a response curve that is diminished but not ext inguished at the overlap which is around 1100 nm.

Only problem with the fast spinning grating is AC powered sources or pulsed /flash sources, but there are techniques to deal with it in software and wi th counter/timers.

I've used the US Digital product in a design at the University, that sc ored me a publication in RSI, thanks to a Prof who thinks all technicians should be first author at least once in their life. I've got another public ation with him, coming out as soon as the reviewer heals from the virus. Th at resulted in two provisional patents related to nanofiber measurement th at are open to licensing. They have a related business that makes interpol ating decoder ICs for optical encoders which I use quite a few of.

I have to see how bad the 1600 nm grating blaze falls off in the visible, b ut with updated detector technology it looks like 5 nm resolution with a si mple encoder and either 500 to 1800 or say 400 to 2200. With a dual set of gratings this could be quite an amazing instrument for next to nothing in h ardware.

The original digitizing option ran on a Apple II of all things, and capture d a high res scan in 1.2 seconds with an asynchronous, free running, motor. It then did the wavelength correction with a lookup table. They had an opt ion for pulsed source profiling by building up an average of scans. Also a software option for linearizing the detector, if needed. So real time disp lay was the scope, and data collection was the Apple.

All the thumb switches did was set either a marker or the starting wavele ngth edge for the scope display, depending on the evolution of the unit. H ence the low chip count in the unit I was using.

For a basic user, correction is not needed, the error is not even noticeabl e for some one on the production floor. Spend an hour with a cal lamp , the n laser print a graticle on a transparency, cut to fit the scope screen and call it a day.

OK, it has some quirks, but the mechanics are easy, the cost to manufacture is low , its flexible, and useful on the bench.

With a modern microcontroller, you could flip in a grating, turn on a calib ration lamp, let the controller find the peaks, run the simple regression, and switch ranges in probably 30 seconds.

Steve

Reply to
sroberts6328
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Yeah, Hamamatsu is a weird company. They seem to make everything in pots and pans. Their detectors are generally very good, but their electronic bits are junk. I've tried to interest them in hiring EOI to be their racing division, but so far without success. So we're going into competition with them instead. (Stay tuned.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

When I was away from the University for a few years, I needed a certain lam p in large quanities for a law enforcement / fire / rescue / boating produ ct, basically a warning system with a few interesting um, multispectral, f eatures that really save lives. My office was off site, in a nice building in the middle of nowhere Indianna. Down the road was a very large, very sec ure, plant that did the contract manufacturing of many, many, interesting t hings.

So I call the USA office, and ask for a sample and a quote. "We can't do th at!" came the reply. But, if you can wait a few weeks, a sales rep from Nip pon is coming over who can bring you a sample, and negotiate. Ok, talk to sole proprietor company owner, who grumbles, but says OK.

Now this lamp had a very critical integral reflector, and some unique high power pulse features that we needed.

So She drives from basically Baltimore to Indiana in a compact rental wi th her American Intern. Very pretty young lady. Steps out of the rental car into dusty farmland wearing a bright pink business suit right out of the 1

940s with a pencil skirt. I had dressed up, and had the boss go set in the conference room with a suggestion to be a quiet fly on the wall. He was no t known for his negotiating skills. I did all the courtesy, including a g entle bow.

Q1 450$ each, Q10, 450$ each, Q1000, 450$ each, Q4000 per year, 450$ eac h...

No way would she budge on price. Firm as a stone, 450$ a unit.

Did I mention she wanted a full tour of our partner's plant, that was NOFOR due to what else it made?

Excelitas/EG&G dragged a design engineer out of retirement to find out how to modify an existing lamp for overdrive pulsing. They pulled his whole de sk and filing cabinet out of a warehouse, having preserved them when he lef t. Then they set us up with an outside consultant that specialized in obscure arc lamp sales for them. Less then 200# a unit and sliding scale vs quantity.

All I needed was a sample, which we offered to pay for, and a quote.

My more recent dealings have been better. One spare lamp for an instrument, First person I talked to, 750$ and in stock. Next one when I called back f or an actual quote, 450$, then when I went to place the order, 180$ but two to three months as they are hand made in batches on demand every three mo nths. The lamp is installed and working, now as of last week.

I do understand Kiretsu, and their top down management, but I need parts!

They make great lamps and PMTs, but the need to have every sale pass thru home base a few times gets annoying.

Steve

Reply to
sroberts6328

A light spot from a 980 nm 100 mW laser on white paper is visible with an eye adapted to the dark. But this is an illusion - this is the moonlight of spontaneous emission. Measurable by a Si photodetector using two-photon absorption of 1550 nm near-infrared radiation ? Dmitriy P.

Reply to
plastcontrol.ru

Maybe an idea: inside a 'bidi', a bidirectional laser/PIN diode combination, there is a filter (beam splitter) that separates the 1310 and 1550 or 850 / 1310 wavelengts. Opening up a few bidi's would provide filters.

Example:

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(with picture of inside of a bidi).

Arie

Reply to
Arie de Muynck

Oh, One could measure the forward voltage drop at some fixed temperature and current.

George H.

Reply to
George Herold

Yep. There are probably a hundred ways to verify that a unit under test has the correct laser diode installed, but these guys reeeeeealy want to build a spectrometer.

Can't blame 'em, I guess. Spectrometers are cool.

-- john, KE5FX

Reply to
John Miles, KE5FX

I don't want to build anything. I'd buy a box that did my function, if I ciuld find one.

I do want to measure the light wavelength, not open up the box and measure voltage. In some boxes, we tweak the current with a trimpot to get 2 mW of narrow pulses, so we don't actually know the current.

formatting link

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

Science teaches us to doubt. 

  Claude Bernard
Reply to
jlarkin

Hey, Here's a silly idea. (which someone might have mentioned) We use to use silicon wafers as IR filters. If you look at the transmission of Si you'll see that the first shoulder is between 1 and 2 um... And so if you measured amount of transmission through a Si wafer you might be able to see

850 nm.. ~ zero transmission 1.3 um ~ on the shoulder 1.5 um ~ 50 %. (you loose light due to the reflection.. dielectric mismatch on the air interfaces.)

George H.

Reply to
George Herold

Parts for a first order solution with scanning will be here in about a week or so. It wont take me long to put this one together.

Steve

Reply to
sroberts6328

Phil, A seller on Ebay had the MA3 Encoders, new in the box, the pulse width version. That's on its way.

Steve

Reply to
sroberts6328

Good! Remember it's the _duty_cycle_ that you want to measure--the frequency isn't very temperature-stable.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Cheers

Phil

(Also BTW it would help if you'd quote relevant parts of the posts you reply to.)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
https://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Three.

How about this:

A box with two fiber connectors. One is a silicon photodiode, sees 850 but is blind to the others.

One has a bandpass filter and a GaAs photodiode, so it can see 1310 but not 1550.

Couple of opamps and LEDs, and I'm done.

We already know that the DUTs are making light.

The Appointech 1310 lasers are spec'd as +-20 nm at room temp. The Thorlabs filters are much narrower; the 1310 is 12 FWHM.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

know what wavelengths the diodes were when ordered, you can buy a narrow b andpass, say 20 to 40 nm wide, and find out.

h an upconversion phosphor. Not bad for 1000$. Considering used FIND-R-SC OPES are going for nearly a grand on Ebay these days, that is not too bad. A grating and a brand new FIND-R-SCOPE with the 1550 option would cost Mr Larkin 2900....

Optical bandpass filters usually have less then 5% loss on "Laser Line" g rade units.

nductive detectors for the IR spectrum.

Sounds like a winner... It might be you find a filter that passes

1550 and not 1300.. I'm guessing there are some standard filters. You pay 3x as much at thor labs but if you only want one or two it's worth the price.

George H.

Reply to
George Herold

know what wavelengths the diodes were when ordered, you can buy a narrow b andpass, say 20 to 40 nm wide, and find out.

h an upconversion phosphor. Not bad for 1000$. Considering used FIND-R-SC OPES are going for nearly a grand on Ebay these days, that is not too bad. A grating and a brand new FIND-R-SCOPE with the 1550 option would cost Mr Larkin 2900....

Optical bandpass filters usually have less then 5% loss on "Laser Line" g rade units.

nductive detectors for the IR spectrum.

Oh I was thinking you just need something with a sharp edge between 1300 and 1500.. that should be pretty easy.

I had a nice guy design me a bandpass filter*. It had a sharp edge between 780 and 795 nm for Rb. But I asked him to make it so that when you tilted it (through ~30 deg.) you first allowed both wavelengths to pass and then just allowed the 780 nm. Rb lamp became a dual beam light source. (it's not a new idea.)

George H.

*I went looking online but nothing rang a bell. we bought from intor till the price doubled.
Reply to
George Herold

Thorlabs has low/highpass filters, but none will separate 1310 from

1550. There must be something somewhere.

One of my guys thinks he can buy a 1-to-3 fiber splitter that will separate my three wavelengths. Waiting for quotes.

A silicon photodiode would be blind to 1310 and longer, which could help too.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Misposted (lost a letter s), now reposted to correct newsgroup.

What comes immediately to my mind is some kind of shady-tree mechanic's version of a FTIR spectrometer. The hard part is likely the mechanical stuff, keeping the opical paths aligned while one mirror or retroreflector is moving back and forth.

.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

Talk about doing it the hard way. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(Whose main failing as a researcher is that his idea of the ideal project is to build a computer from sand.)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Well, the ancients built clocks out of sand, didn't they? ! ... didn't they?? !!

I was thinking of something mostly built out of fiber optics, but with a fiber-to-beam optical expander/collimator pointed directly at a retroreflector that is mounted on a small carriage held to the instrument frame by two steel spring leafs in parallel, so the carriage would move back and forth without much tilt. The carriage would be driven into mechanical oscillation like one tine of a tuning fork. The other tine of that same tuning fork would carry a countermass of weight equal to the carriage, and would be used to generate a position or at least sync signal. It would also help decouple the oscillation from the environment, and vice versa. The computer would estimate the carriage position and use this in the FTIR math.

But, given that people seem to have found a way to solve the original problem with some filters and sensors, this shady-tree FTIR may need to await a new problem.

Like the more general market for a wide but perhaps sloppy IR spectrometer. The retrorefelctor can be made of front surface mirrors, and the beam expander can be reflective, elimination a lot of expensive naterials.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

A real spectrometer, even a low-resolution one, would do all the above and give you real incoming inspection capability as well. It's far from unknown for wavelengths to be out of spec, for instance.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

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