The project leader on the ventilator project has managed to have a few of t he rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupid thi ngs that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came on boa rd there was no one to do the design review with.
We are working on rev 2 of the board (something the Brits like to call Mk 2 ). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requirements a nalysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
The project lead had been working on getting the rev 2 boards made for free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes us pro viding parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through their l ist to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink.
It's not remotely like using Digikey. They let you select from a general c ategory, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then you hav e to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to get in fo. It reminds me of the 90's.
JLCPCB links to LCSC for all of their parts. Are they connected? I see li nks between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
tirsdag den 28. juli 2020 kl. 07.40.39 UTC+2 skrev Ricketty C:
the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupid t hings that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came on b oard there was no one to do the design review with.
2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requirements analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
ee by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will onl y assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes us p roviding parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through their list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink.
category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then you h ave to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to get info. It reminds me of the 90's.
links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
LCSC supplies components to JLCPCB, they are the same company but separate locations
the reason they can do assembly for next nothing is because they only use t heir own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost automat ic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shipping them r andom bags of components
of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupid things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came on board there was no one to do the design review with.
Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requiremen ts analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will o nly assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes us providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through the ir list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink.
al category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then you have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to ge t info. It reminds me of the 90's.
e links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
Depends on the degree of overlap. If LCSC has 10x more parts than JLC then it's pretty much the same deal.
Yesterday in the conference call I asked how we were going to handle the pa rts JLC simply doesn't carry, like the pressure sensors. It may turn out w e simply don't want to work with them because their restriction is too seve re. For the moment I'm going to wait for a response.
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 6:30:01 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen w rote:
of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupid things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came on board there was no one to do the design review with.
Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requiremen ts analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will o nly assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes us providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through the ir list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink.
al category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then you have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to ge t info. It reminds me of the 90's.
e links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
e locations
their own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost autom atic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shipping them random bags of components
So are they mainly a hobbyist's tool? Looking at the available parts it wo uld be hard to design a product being so limited, especially given the lack of parametric search capability.
I would find it hard to believe that kitting and loading customer's parts w ould be that big of a deal. The majority of the cost is amortization of th e machines. Kitting is done before tying up the machine. Switching reel s etups is done in a few seconds.
Is JLC capable of building boards with custom stack ups or do they only wor k with their own fixed stack up? I've never looked into them since I don't have a need for a contract manufacturer without test capability. I see th ey have a six layer stack up with "impedance control", but it looks like yo u can have any stack up you want as long as it's that one.
If LCSC and JLC is the same company, it would makes sense that LCSC would h ave an option to search only for JLC parts. Maybe they have better search capabilities in the EasyPCB schematic capture program.
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Wouldn't it be easier to check the designs, to get them right the first time?
And to spend a few dollars to build them soon? It's probably too late for a new ventilator design anyhow. There's a zillion sitting around unused, and they tend to kill people.
Serious medical equipment takes years and megabucks to qualify. And then the manufacturing and QC requirements are extreme. JLPCB would
*not* do.
I know one guy who worked for a big-name theraputic x-ray machine maker, pretty much a particle accelerator. They got an unannounced inspection from the FDA. The inspector found a new pc board and a repair unit on the same test bench, one with a yellow tag and one with a red tag, so shut down the company and sent everybody to re-education classes. After six months of that, my friend quit.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
I just worked over a board design to minimize the number of pick-and-place feeders, so our line could build it in one pass. What a pain, putting resistors in series or parallel to replace one unique value, mis-using voltage regulators, compromising the values of bypass and timing caps, all that.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupi d things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came o n board there was no one to do the design review with.
Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requireme nts analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes u s providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through th eir list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink .
ral category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then yo u have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to g et info. It reminds me of the 90's.
ee links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
You don't seem to understand the problem at all. This is not about "checki ng" designs. This is about getting boards built.
Perhaps you are offering to make a donation? Check out the donate button o n the main page.
formatting link
No, as you point out there are many places coming up the curve the first ti me. There may be a lot of ventilators unused in NY and California... well, NY anyway, but that does no one any good in South Africa. This ventilator can be built for under $1000 material costs.
They are just the ticket for prototypes. You do understand prototypes, rig ht?
That was likely in the US, no? These will be made elsewhere. Pretty much everyone knows to stay away from the US when it comes to health care produc ts, all vastly over priced just like our health care.
of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupi d things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came o n board there was no one to do the design review with.
Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requireme nts analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes u s providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through th eir list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink .
ral category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then yo u have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to g et info. It reminds me of the 90's.
ee links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
te locations
e their own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost auto matic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shipping the m random bags of components
Why is every conversation in s.e.d about Larkin? I think I see why you lik e Trump so much, you shave a lot of personality traits. But then you are a lso like Musk, but you seem to hate him. Is it jealousy because he is very successful running many businesses at the same time and you have a small b usiness that you are chained to?
--
Rick C.
-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
tirsdag den 28. juli 2020 kl. 18.27.05 UTC+2 skrev Ricketty C:
w of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stup id things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I came on board there was no one to do the design review with.
l Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requirem ents analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
r free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this excludes us providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through t heir list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sin k.
eral category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then y ou have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to get info. It reminds me of the 90's.
see links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
ate locations
se their own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost aut omatic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shipping th em random bags of components
would be hard to design a product being so limited, especially given the la ck of parametric search capability.
it is affordable prototyping, maximum 30 pieces
they have 30K part to chose from and even if you have so hand solder a spec ial part it is a huge timer saver to have all the jelly bean and passives m ounted
would be that big of a deal. The majority of the cost is amortization of the machines. Kitting is done before tying up the machine. Switching reel setups is done in a few seconds.
the setup fee is $7 ! would you mess with people sending boxes of random pa rts, loose in bags, on cut tape, more or less well marked, putting them in feeder and make sure the rotation is correct for $7 ?
They can do it so cheap because they have streamlined the process with mini mum manual work.
they consolidate everyone?s designs into big panels and feed them t hrough a row of machines that has already been setup for all their basic co mponents, with a few extra spots for extended components that'll cost you a n extra $3 setup
My father worked in a shoe store as a teen where you could just stick your feet in a fluoroscope and see your toe bones wiggle around. Well it was a different time, I guess.
My hobby projects are more pedestrian I was thinking the other day about whether you could build a scrolling Times-square like marquee in 1:160 scale, whether there are any SMT LEDs small enough for an approximation with reasonable resolution or if you'd have to resort to fiber optics.
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 1:39:31 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen w rote:
few of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just st upid things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I cam e on board there was no one to do the design review with.
all Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requir ements analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
for free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they wi ll only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this exclude s us providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go through their list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time s ink.
eneral category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Then you have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets t o get info. It reminds me of the 90's.
I see links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
arate locations
use their own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost a utomatic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shipping them random bags of components
t would be hard to design a product being so limited, especially given the lack of parametric search capability.
ecial part it is a huge timer saver to have all the jelly bean and passives mounted
I get all that. My issue is they have virtually no useful selection featur es so it is some hundred times more work to find a useful part on their web site than on Digikey. Definitely not worth my time to mess with. I'm not sure I'm willing to do all that searching for this open source project eit her.
You can say it is "useful" but in reality it's not very unless you are happ y with very generic parts and don't mind spending a lot of extra time searc hing for parts you can use. That latter is a HUGE factor in my view. i us e Digikey mostly for their search tool. What good is 30k parts if it takes you hours to find one?
ts would be that big of a deal. The majority of the cost is amortization o f the machines. Kitting is done before tying up the machine. Switching re el setups is done in a few seconds.
parts, loose in bags, on cut tape, more or less well marked, putting them i n feeder and make sure the rotation is correct for $7 ?
I found where they say they don't install your parts. If they are part of LCSC, why wouldn't they work with all the LCSC inventory? Heck, even the L CSC site is not that great. They can't even tell you what they carry and w hat they don't without going to the individual pages. They seem to list a bunch of Chinese FPGAs, but don't actually have any of them.
nimum manual work.
through a row of machines that has already been setup for all their basic components, with a few extra spots for extended components that'll cost you an extra $3 setup
I found a page explaining their assembly and they will only do boards with up to 30 parts, 2 or 4 layers and once you go beyond the 689 basic parts it 's $3 extra per part. That gets expensive real quick. Trying to design th ings with the 689 basic parts would be like the up goer five.
formatting link
--
Rick C.
+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
tirsdag den 28. juli 2020 kl. 20.44.37 UTC+2 skrev Ricketty C:
a few of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupid things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I c ame on board there was no one to do the design review with.
call Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requ irements analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
e for free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this exclu des us providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go throu gh their list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink.
general category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Th en you have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to get info. It reminds me of the 90's.
I see links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
eparate locations
ly use their own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost automatic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shippin g them random bags of components
it would be hard to design a product being so limited, especially given th e lack of parametric search capability.
special part it is a huge timer saver to have all the jelly bean and passiv es mounted
ures so it is some hundred times more work to find a useful part on their w eb site than on Digikey. Definitely not worth my time to mess with. I'm n ot sure I'm willing to do all that searching for this open source project e ither.
ppy with very generic parts and don't mind spending a lot of extra time sea rching for parts you can use. That latter is a HUGE factor in my view. i use Digikey mostly for their search tool. What good is 30k parts if it tak es you hours to find one?
arts would be that big of a deal. The majority of the cost is amortization of the machines. Kitting is done before tying up the machine. Switching reel setups is done in a few seconds.
m parts, loose in bags, on cut tape, more or less well marked, putting them in feeder and make sure the rotation is correct for $7 ?
f LCSC, why wouldn't they work with all the LCSC inventory? Heck, even the LCSC site is not that great. They can't even tell you what they carry and what they don't without going to the individual pages. They seem to list a bunch of Chinese FPGAs, but don't actually have any of them.
guess it is not for you then, it is a helluva lot better than the old way w ith even a tiny PCB costing 1000s, assembly another 1000s and that's after spen ding weeks ordering and labeling parts
minimum manual work.
em through a row of machines that has already been setup for all their basi c components, with a few extra spots for extended components that'll cost y ou an extra $3 setup
h up to 30 parts, 2 or 4 layers and once you go beyond the 689 basic parts it's $3 extra per part. That gets expensive real quick. Trying to design things with the 689 basic parts would be like the up goer five.
a few of the rev 1 boards built, but they are terribly full of bugs. Just stupid things that would have been caught in a design review, but until I c ame on board there was no one to do the design review with.
call Mk 2). It has been a real cluster f**k because of the lack of a requ irements analysis and "stuff" just keeps changing and getting added.
e for free by JLCPCB, but now that we've sent a BoM to them they said they will only assemble parts from their parts list. I'm not certain this exclu des us providing parts they don't carry, but still, just trying to go throu gh their list to see what they have that might be compatible is a huge time sink.
general category, then a sub category. Then you can select a package. Th en you have to wade through all the parts individually and view data sheets to get info. It reminds me of the 90's.
I see links between their sites as well as to EasyPCB.
eparate locations
ly use their own parts already in the machines and can do everything almost automatic, they couldn't do that if they had to deal with everyone shippin g them random bags of components
it would be hard to design a product being so limited, especially given th e lack of parametric search capability.
special part it is a huge timer saver to have all the jelly bean and passiv es mounted
ures so it is some hundred times more work to find a useful part on their w eb site than on Digikey. Definitely not worth my time to mess with. I'm n ot sure I'm willing to do all that searching for this open source project e ither.
ppy with very generic parts and don't mind spending a lot of extra time sea rching for parts you can use. That latter is a HUGE factor in my view. i use Digikey mostly for their search tool. What good is 30k parts if it tak es you hours to find one?
arts would be that big of a deal. The majority of the cost is amortization of the machines. Kitting is done before tying up the machine. Switching reel setups is done in a few seconds.
m parts, loose in bags, on cut tape, more or less well marked, putting them in feeder and make sure the rotation is correct for $7 ?
f LCSC, why wouldn't they work with all the LCSC inventory? Heck, even the LCSC site is not that great. They can't even tell you what they carry and what they don't without going to the individual pages. They seem to list a bunch of Chinese FPGAs, but don't actually have any of them.
minimum manual work.
em through a row of machines that has already been setup for all their basi c components, with a few extra spots for extended components that'll cost y ou an extra $3 setup
h up to 30 parts, 2 or 4 layers and once you go beyond the 689 basic parts it's $3 extra per part. That gets expensive real quick. Trying to design things with the 689 basic parts would be like the up goer five.
Correction. The 30 count is the number of boards they will produce.
--
Rick C.
++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:36:06 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen w rote:
of LCSC, why wouldn't they work with all the LCSC inventory? Heck, even t he LCSC site is not that great. They can't even tell you what they carry a nd what they don't without going to the individual pages. They seem to lis t a bunch of Chinese FPGAs, but don't actually have any of them.
with
ending weeks ordering and labeling parts
Yeah, but if you need a hammer, selling you a hamburger is not so useful ev en if it's with a free drink.
If I want a board with parts on it they don't offer I have to hand solder o r find someone with a hot air station. But the part that really bugs me is the huge work required to select parts from their difficult to search data base. That is where it turns into a false economy even if the boards are free.
My time is worth a few bucks. I'd love to get the prototypes cheaper, but I'm not going to waste my time searching for parts in a non-database.
--
Rick C.
--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
It's a problem, but I'm trying to surmount it for my own designs.
The JLCPCB parts list is a CSV file, which includes datasheet links as well as price breaks and stock levels. You can load it into Excel, but I just use Unix "grep". It's in categories, but some of those are too non-specific. For example there are 780 in-stock DC-DC converters, and no information to choose between them. Also, some of the probably-useful chips only have Chinese language datasheets.
LCSC has a parametric search engine which is good for some categories. It's unfortunately useless for DC-DC converters, because the parameters simply aren't populated. Also, JLCPCB doesn't have all the LCSC parts, so you need to cross-check the CSV.
I'm toying with the idea of auto-downloading all the JLCPCB datasheets, and linking them to a database from the CSV file. Populate that with LCSC web links... add generalized parameter storage/search to the database and start populating it... perhaps including some web scraping of Digikey's parameters...
Then, progressively build a Kicad library (of footprints, etc) for the parts listed, possibly even modify Kicad's library system so a parametric search over the database can be used to select symbols and footprints...
The whole thing would be a big undertaking, but the result could be very slick to use. Maybe I could persuade LCSC to fund it...
rt of LCSC, why wouldn't they work with all the LCSC inventory? Heck, even the LCSC site is not that great. They can't even tell you what they carry and what they don't without going to the individual pages. They seem to l ist a bunch of Chinese FPGAs, but don't actually have any of them.
way with
spending weeks ordering and labeling parts
l even if it's with a free drink.
er or find someone with a hot air station. But the part that really bugs m e is the huge work required to select parts from their difficult to search data base. That is where it turns into a false economy even if the boards are free.
but I'm not going to waste my time searching for parts in a non-database.
That info alone is rather useless if you want to select a part with specifi c parameters or functionality. I want a generic linear regulator with 1 am p, 5 volts and an enable input. What can I search on? Package.
That means you go through the selection process only to start over when the part isn't in the JLC data base.
Much more useful would be to add a field to Digikey's search to indicate if it is carried by JLC. Why not ask them if they'll add it? ;)
A huge undertaking for minimal return. Maybe you could charge people to us e it? Charge $0.10 per part searched and selected. 100 parts on your boar d would cost $10, a bargain.
--
Rick C.
--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
I got them to publish a spreadsheet with their parts:
formatting link
so you can do your own search. The spreadsheet is a little cryptic (e.g. the price is encoded with with multiple quantity breaks, and you have to retrieve the datasheets yourself, but hey.
What sort of data sheet comes in the form of an .exe file?
Even so, the problem is not the format of the data. The problem is that they don't include the useful parametric data that is needed for selection. What's in this spreadsheet that would be useful?
--
Rick C.
-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
rt of LCSC, why wouldn't they work with all the LCSC inventory? Heck, even the LCSC site is not that great. They can't even tell you what they carry and what they don't without going to the individual pages. They seem to l ist a bunch of Chinese FPGAs, but don't actually have any of them.
way with
spending weeks ordering and labeling parts
l even if it's with a free drink.
er or find someone with a hot air station. But the part that really bugs m e is the huge work required to select parts from their difficult to search data base. That is where it turns into a false economy even if the boards are free.
but I'm not going to waste my time searching for parts in a non-database.
Hmm, please, where did you find the CSV file? I only see this link:
formatting link
which downloads a binary file (compressed into a .msi file). In the file near the top is "Java Excel API v2.6.12"
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.