Looking ahead

...and local taxes, and sales taxes, and real estate taxes, and...

Well, he was mayor of the largest city in Vermont. He was also a bum. Some things never change.

heir needs and from each according to their capacities", but their Gini ind ices are 0.25 - 0.28 in Germany - which, while better than the US where it' s 0.45, are a long way above zero (which would be perfect equality). There are certainly plenty of rich Germans around.

Perfect equality - a Gini index of 0 - doesn't look like a situation anybod y is aiming at. Its perfection is purely that of being an ideal case.

The actual span of Gini indices is from 0.25 in a couple of Scandinavian co untries to around 0.3 in most advanced industrial countries to 0.45 in the US, and 0.469 in China, and higher in more primitive societies.

c.

ly

The Gini index in Russia today is 0.42. Anything over 0.4 looks rather lik e an elite ripping off the rest of the population, which pretty much descri bed how the USSR worked in practice - as opposed to the party-originated sp in.

There have been idealistic communities that tried to hold everything in com mon. They didn't work well, and haven't lasted.

If "The Spirit Level" does present credible statistics - and right-wing cri tics don't argue about the statistics - a country with a Gini index of 0.25 usually works better than one with a higher Gini index (not that the Spiri t Level uses the Gini index to sort countries on inequality).

most_Always_Do_Better

It's a statistical association rather than a rigidly predictable relationsh ip, and the authors see it more as a consequence of more generally equitabl e societies allowing less stressful social interactions. This leaves a lot of room for non-financial differences between countries.

One of the early comments about the Netherlands from about 1600, was that i t was hard to tell the difference between a lady and her maid-servant - bot h dressed much the same, and both behaved equally politely and deferentiall y, which in practice meant that neither were particularly deferential to fo reign males, who were expecting more deference from both.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

We know why krw thinks he was a bum - Sanders is a socialist - but being the mayor of the largest city in Vermont strikes most people as a "real job" and krw's opinions are a little too predictably right-wing nitwit to be taken seriously.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

It is still hocum.

Dan

I know why Dan thinks that - he's a right-wing nitwit of the dumbest kind, and none of them like "The Spirit Level".

What I'd like to know is what might expect to achieve by telling us that he can't construct a coherent argument to support his dim-witted prejudice.

We know krw can't rise above "it's a lie" when he comes across something that doesn't match his pre-programmed wordl-view, but "It is still hocum" isn't fundamentally different, and betrays the same kind of cognitive deficit.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

You might enjoy this--a brilliant animated graphic from the Financial Times showing inflation-adjusted income distribution in the US over time.

It shows a humped distribution, where the hump moves forward over time (indicating more people moving to the higher income ranges), flattens, and a spike that shoots up in the highest-income categories.

That spike is Bilious Bill's 'problem'--too many people hitting it big is 'bad,' obviously.

You'll also notice that the progress is generally forward except under Obama, a result inherent to his and Bilious' policies.

Cheers, James Arthur

In 8 years as mayor of Burlington he earned less money than Hillary Clinton makes in a single 20 minute speech to a small group of high level corporate executives. He clearly has a very limited connection to government.

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Grizzly H.

No, I doubt I would, I'm a reader of MMM, MR Money Mustache.

This computer programmer retired at 30 and lives off the return on his stache. Has a wife and child and a paid off house. He reports that he lives on $25,000 a year, lives well and also travels.

The jist of the philosophy is to save a large portion of your income, when you have 25x your spending, you can retire and live off of 4% of your stache every year. Invested properly (and with market cooperation) it will grow enough to give you an inflation raise each year.

Note: I have no interest in living as frugal as many MMM retires do. Although they call it a lifestyle---devoid of consumerism. (Also, not everyone has an interest in retireing)

Then there is the forum for wannabee conversation, many people that retired at 35 to 50 years old, and others that are working towards that goal.

Lots of fun conversation there.

Here's a calculator that many MMM followers use as a test of there stache. It is pretty easy to use, but spending a little time with it allows you to get more variables into it, as you figure them out. It runs 115 stock market scenarios and graphs your stache over that 30* year period. (*adjustable) It starts in 1900 and runs 30 years, then

1901 and runs 30 years, continues until it starts at 1985 ends at 2015. It shows a graph containing all runs, if any drop to zero, your portfolio failed. If you have 3% to 5% failures, you need to make some adjustments.

Exposing the MMM philosophy,

Mikek

Indiana notoriously very nearly legislated a rational value for pi. But not quite, sadly for history.

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Roger Hayter

, and none of them like "The Spirit Level".

And you are still wrong. I am not right wing. Actually I am slightly left of center, but that does not mean I do not find fault with stupidity in g overnment. And is far as being a Nitwit, well maybe so, but a Nitwit who m ade more money than you have, a Nitwit that managed to miss only 6 days of work from being laid off, a Nitwit that probably has a higher IQ than you and who went to a higher rated college than you did.

he can't construct a coherent argument to support his dim-witted prejudice.

that doesn't match his pre-programmed wordl-view, but "It is still hocum" i sn't fundamentally different, and betrays the same kind of cognitive defici t.

The Spirit Level is a book. I read about half of it and skimmed most of th e rest. To refute it the easiest way is to read the book. That will work for most people, but I am sure it will not work for you. You are not criti cal enough to see the errors. There is way too much to refute it in a use group.

But it is still hocum.

Dan

Ignore Slowman. He doesn't realize that the largest city (there are only nine) in Vermont is pretty small. There are only 600K people in the entire state. Slowman's an idiot.

He was an excellent mayor went on to become a member of Congress for 25 years and climbing.

And he's been pretty busy, a list of legislation sponsored or cosponsered just in 2015:

I see that you know about as much about Vermont as Slowman and are just as proud of it.

...and nothing in the twenty something years before that. He's as useless as you and your idiot twin, Slowman.

Krw is predictable. He thinks that anybody who doesn't share his pre-progra mmed set of opinions is an idiot (which doesn't actually follow).

If krw had mastered the conventions of intelligent discussion, he'd have go ne to the trouble of googling Burlington, Vermont

It had a population of 42,417 at the last US census, which doesn't make it large, but quite large enough that being the mayor was a non-trivial job. S anders got the job by unseating a long-standing mayor, and served for eight years before going on to higher things, handing over the mayor job to one of his younger colleagues, who seems to been pretty good too.

The fact that the job didn't pay an eighth as much per year as the ex-Secre tary of State can command for a 20-minute speech doesn't say much. Few real

-world jobs pay that well - Hillary Clinton is famous, and knows how to exp loit that.

Krw isn't famous and is never going to be. Having boringly predictable opin ions which you can't be bothered to defend isn't a route to becoming well-k nown, though being a particularly despicable example of the inarticulate ri ght-wing nitwit does earn him more attention than he deserves.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

Naturally. The cure for excess redistribution is always...more redistribution. ;-)

Cheers, James Arthur

as

to

What's there to know about Vermont? Wyoming has a lower population (by abou t 7%) and five other sates have smaller land areas - it's nine times bigger than Rhode Island. US citizens are taught about all fifty states and the t erritories the federal districtand the possesions, but foreigners can be mo re selective about the trivia they remember.

d just in 2015:

Krw is predictable. Sanders was actually quite active as congressman, but n ot in ways that would have endeared him to krw. He was critical of Dubby'a war on Irak from the start, and well aware that Dubbya had lied to Congress when justifying it.

Granting that the US constitution is a Moderate Enlightment concoction, dev ised by the founding tax evaders so that the people who owned the country w ould continue to run the country, Sanders hasn't been particularly effectiv e - the constitution is designed to keep the veneer of democracy thin enoug h that his concerns won't get acted on - but his heart is in the right plac e, and he has been working as effectively as his situation allows.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

nd, and none of them like "The Spirit Level".

Of course not. You just walk like a right-winger, and quack like a right-wi nger, but because all your friends are as right-wing as you are you thoink that you are middle-of-the-road.

ind fault with stupidity in government. And is far as being a Nitwit, well maybe so, but a Nitwit who made more money than you have, a Nitwit that m anaged to miss only 6 days of work from being laid off, a Nitwit that proba bly has a higher IQ than you and who went to a higher rated college than you did.

Really? Why do you think you made more money than I have. I've never specif ied how much money I've earned, or possess, and I'm not going to engage in a pissing contest with a half-wit about relative incomes.

My university education was at the University of Melbourne in Australia, an d I was there from 1960 to 1970 getting a B.Sc., and M.Sc. and a Ph.D. in t hat time. This is all well-known and has been posted here repeatedly. You h aven't told us where you got your education. There are a couple of places i n the US that had higher ratings than the University of Melbourne in the 19

60's, but not all that many. The fact that you think you might have a highe r IQ than I do - and that it might matter - suggests that you attach more i mportance to IQ than is sensible.

IQ tests are keep and simple to administer, and correlate reasonably well w ith the capacity to pass exams, but rather less well with useful skills.

t he can't construct a coherent argument to support his dim-witted prejudic e.

g that doesn't match his pre-programmed wordl-view, but "It is still hocum" isn't fundamentally different, and betrays the same kind of cognitive defi cit.

the > rest. To refute it the easiest way is to read the book. That will w ork for > most people, but I am sure it will not work for you. You are not critical

roup.

Sure. There are attempted right-wing refutations, but none of the critics h as done anything like enough work to be taken seriously

and you couldn't be bothered to find a link to anything vaguely convincing because there doesn't seem to be anything plausible you could link to.

Sure. Keep on telling yourself that. It's much less of an effort than worki ng out why you might justifiably claim that you don't have to take it serio usly, when people like David Cameron (the current UK prime minister - a Con servative) do.

It all reminds of the Christian church's reactions to Spinoza. They were al l convinced that he had to be wrong, but could never come up with an intell ectually satisfying counter-argument. They still think he's wrong, but our world is Spinoza's, not theirs

dp/0199254567

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

The spike is equally obviously a defect in the way the histogram has been c onstructed - there are too few bins at the high income end of the scale.

The problem - as spelled out in "The Spirit Level" - is that high levels of income inequality are associated with a raft of social problems. I don't h ave any problem with some people getting paid a lot, but the evidence is th at gross differences in income damage society. Sweden and German both have plenty of rich people (though not as many as the US) but they also have soc ial policies that mean that the poor aren't all that poor (and do quite a b it better than the corresponding lower income percentiles in the US) and th eir societies have less of a number of problems that are worse in the US (a nd worse, to a lesser extent in the UK which is also more unequal than Scan dinavia or Germany , though less so than the USA).

That depends what you mean by "progress", which you've carefully failed to define - unspecified strawmen are so much easier to set up.

Obama came to power just as the GST began to bite. The GST belongs to Dubby a in as far as it belongs to anybody. As the film and the book "The Big Sho rt" make clear

some people knew that the GST was coming. Dubbya - and his advisors - shoul d have been some of them, and should - in principle - have done something a bout it.

Since James Arthur's single political principle is that Republicans can do no wrong, he's totally unaware of this - or totally unwilling to admit it, which comes to the same thing around here.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney