I want to build an LO

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

If you want to handle the 2-100 MHz range in a single sweep in a single oscillator, that is not going to happen.

Of course, you could make a 2-100 MHz sweep with a VFO running between

122-220 MHz and mix it down with a 120 MHz overtone crystal, but the frequency stability will be quite bad, due to the VFO in the VHF range.

If you want 2-100 MHz from a single oscillator, that is a frequency range of 1:50. If only one component is tunable, typically the capacitor, this requires a 2500:1 capacitance range. This is clearly impractical due to stray capacitances. Clearly both the capacitance and inductance must be tuned, but getting 50:1 or similar ratios for both the inductance and capacitance is hard.

With only a tunable capacitor (capacitance diode) trying to reach larger frequency ranges larger than 1:3 is asking for troubles, as this already required a 9:1 capacitance range, including stray capacitances.

In the old days, when tubes and transistors were expensive, elaborate mechanical switching was used to switch in various inductances and capacitances in series/parallel. These days, when the active component costs practically nothing, it makes much more sense to build a complete oscillator for each subband and only connect power to the oscillator to be used at a particular time.

You might for instance build an oscillator for 2-6 MHz with a big varactor intended for MW (AM) receivers.

The next oscillator could cover 5-15 MHz, next 12-36 MHz and finally

33-100 MHz, all these with low capacitance varactors, several in parallel at the lower bands. There are plenty of designs for these HF and VHF frequencies, which should be easily scalable to those frequency ranges.

One other alternative would be to build a 50-100 MHz VFO followed by five divide-by-two frequency dividers followed by fixed low pass filters at each tap. Since the square wave output from the divider contains a lot of 3rd harmonic, to simplify the low pass filters, the VFO tuning range should be less than 1:3, in this case 1:2.

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

I do not like the recent ARRL handbooks, the older ones have better technical contents. Try to locate a 10-20 years old ARRL handbook from a library or eBay etc.

Reply to
upsidedown
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do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

IMD, etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

What I told him is that building a Colpitts oscillator is easy. He could then just build one.

Then quit whining and post one.

--

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    

Precision electronic instrumentation 
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators 
Custom timing and laser controllers 
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links 
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer 
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Reply to
John Larkin

do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

IMD, etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

find any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

--
One man's meat is another man's poison.
Reply to
John Fields

If someone is not already credited on this, you should be.

Many times the result is a very poor, inefficient one at that, as compared to dedicated (intended to be such at design time) oscillator circuits.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

LOL. Yes, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. Another one is "the better you make the amplifier, the more it will oscillate".

tm

Reply to
tm

do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

IMD, etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

find any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

I Hartley endorse the concept.

--

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    

Precision electronic instrumentation 
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators 
Custom timing and laser controllers 
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links 
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer 
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Reply to
John Larkin

As long as it doesn't give you the Clapp.

-- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)

Reply to
Fred Abse

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

It's not if you stick to the KISS principle, for example...

formatting link
...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

I do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

IMD, etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

find any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

--
Sadly, that doesn't Pierce the problem.
Reply to
John Fields

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

And my favorite "just throw it together" crystal oscillator...

formatting link

(The tank can be used to select the desired overtone.) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

Oh, it is VERY easy; just build an amplifier!

Reply to
Robert Baer

do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

IMD, etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

What happens when you cross a Colpitts oscillator with an Armstrong super-regen? Answer: You get an ArmPitts oscillator.

Reply to
Robert Baer

following:

Mines simpler :)

--

John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

[snip]

I did that MC1648 design back around 1968, when I was only 28 years old ;-)

I still get requests to put that basic scheme onto modern custom Analog/Mixed-Signal chip designs.

For one of our occasional Australian lurkers, I did that scheme as a bipolar core, with a CMOS AGC to keep the spurs down. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

following:

--
Beautiful!
Reply to
John Fields

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

Wide tuning range link courtesy of Steve Roberts...

formatting link
...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

--
Back then I was 30, and was heading up Marine Acoustical Services' 
instrumentation lab in Miami, Florida, and designed, built, and ran 
sea trials, in situ, on an underwater sound velocity - temperature - 
depth recording system for the purpose of profiling the Sea of Japan. 

Funnest job I ever had. 
---     

>I still get requests to put that basic scheme onto modern custom 
>Analog/Mixed-Signal chip designs.
Reply to
John Fields

do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

IMD, etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

Nope ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and 100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

I must be doing something wrong. I simulated it in LTSpice and I get

5MHz oscillation with a 10MHz tank. And it is a long way from a sine wave.

Version 4 SHEET 1 880 680 WIRE -160 -256 -288 -256 WIRE 16 -256 -160 -256 WIRE 128 -256 16 -256 WIRE 400 -256 128 -256 WIRE -288 -208 -288 -256 WIRE 16 -160 16 -256 WIRE 128 -160 128 -256 WIRE -288 -112 -288 -128 WIRE 16 -16 16 -96 WIRE 128 -16 128 -80 WIRE 128 -16 16 -16 WIRE 400 -16 400 -256 WIRE 128 32 128 -16 WIRE 336 32 128 32 WIRE 128 192 128 32 WIRE -160 240 -160 -256 WIRE 64 240 -160 240 WIRE 128 336 128 288 WIRE 400 336 400 80 WIRE 400 336 128 336 WIRE 128 384 128 336 WIRE 128 480 128 464 FLAG 128 480 0 FLAG -288 -112 0 SYMBOL npn 64 192 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value 2N2369 SYMBOL npn 336 -16 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q2 SYMATTR Value 2N2369 SYMBOL res 112 368 R0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 4.3k SYMBOL voltage -288 -224 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 5 SYMBOL ind 112 -176 R0 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 16u SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=20 SYMBOL cap 0 -160 R0 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 15.8p TEXT -322 504 Left 2 !.tran 0 10u 5u

Reply to
John S

do not want to use Crystals, Frequency Synthesis, DDS, etc. Let's say 2 MHz and

100 MHz. I don't know where to start!

following:

etc. No circuits to build. Just demo circuits for illustration, sometimes only the small signal model.

specific components. Very little on how to generalize things into different frequencies. (The ARRL handbook 2010 and Experimental Methods fall under this).

any S parameter files for the devices I'm interested in using.

Well, Jim didn't furnish L and C values.

Scale C up and L down. But not too much or it will quit oscillating.

--

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    

Precision electronic instrumentation 
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators 
Custom timing and laser controllers 
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links 
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer 
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Reply to
John Larkin

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