I'm still happy with my HSA.

Sorry about all the troubles, looks like you're past them now though. The uninsured and those with preexisting conditions are a problem. I don't have the answer but I don't like the idea of someone waiting till they need insurance and then going out to get it. Regarding preexisting, it may help if COBRA is made more permanent. Basically take your employers plan with you. It is just one more of the myriad of finanicial problems on the horizon. Being held responsible for government subsidies you receive, your a dreamer Paul :-) I'm afraid that would take any incentive out of getting off welfare and foodstamps. BTW did you know if your low income, the government will provide you with a cellphone! Only in America. Mike

Yes, I like the fact that the bills go through my insurance company, they say the amount allowed for the service and then I pay it. I recently had $755 of doctor service, the insurance allowed $346, that is the amount I had to pay. Pathology was $291 amount allowed which I had to pay $127. This one I didn't understand, I had a lipid profile and the insurance company was billed $106 and only allowed $11.00, which is what I had to pay. Mike

Thanks for that extra, now if we can just get Jim to kick in a little :-) I checked the 1040, I'm good, nothing on those lines. Last year I paid cash for a couple of medical bills, this year I went to the bank that holds the HSA account and wrote a check to reimburse myself. They would not cash it, they said it was policy because it was an HSA and they couldn't assure the funds were used for medical. I gave them a little bit of a hard time and some reasoning and went across the street and cashed the check. By the time I got home there was a message on my answering machine, I called and they changed the policy, HSA account holders will be able to cash HSA checks at their bank. I still might have a little bind, pulling money out this year for last years medical bills. I'll keep better track next December. Mike

...hence the idea of requiring everyone to have healthcare insurance whether they want it or not...

I thought that was a rather creative idea he had, but yeah, no way will it ever pass. :-)

Not really -- even in countries that don't hand out cellphones directly, I suspect that many welfare recipients are using their welfare checks to pay for cellphone service.

I don't really want to debate if we should or shouldn't be prociding cell phones to low income people, although I will note that cell phones can be cheaper -- depending on your calling patterns -- than the landlines that have been available for low income citizens for many decades now.

---Joel

Only the very rich or the very poor have any reason not to pay for basic health insurance. The very poor already have programs such as medicaid, and the very rich would not be unfairly burdened by having to pay what most of us in the middle are happy to have the opportunity to pay if we are not denied the opportunity. If everyone had an HSA type policy, it would provide a very nice retirement account for those who are lucky enough to remain healthy most of their lives, while it also provides good coverage at a reasonable and predictable cost if you really need to cover medical expenses.

If there were a way to allow someone to "opt out" of health insurance, by signing a legally binding document that prohibits them from receiving any medical treatment until they establish that they can and will pay for it themselves, then that would be reasonable. But the fact is that first responders and hospitals will always be required to give at least immediate life-saving care without checking on the ability to pay. However, there could be stiff fines and even jail time imposed on anyone who abuses the system. Far easier to impose a universal tax of, say, $5000 per year for health benefits, which would be offset by a direct deduction of payment for individual health insurance. Most people would see little difference in their overall tax burden, and at least nobody will be financially ruined by huge medical bills, or have their health ruined by not receiving adequate health screening and diagnostics.

One may hope and at at least propose the idea. Free handouts are a major disincentive to responsibility and productivity. Nothing should be given without some obligation toward the provider. And I also have no problem with imposing some limits on the freedoms of people who are recipients of public funds. I think everyone is entitled to basic food, clothing, shelter, education, and medical care. But I don't think anyone on public assistance has the right to have an unlimited number of children, and then be rewarded by increased child care benefits. I do not propose forced sterilization, but I would offer it as an alternative to having unwanted and improperly cared for children removed from the family. A really effective way would be to offer anyone a bounty of, say, $5000 in return for being sterilized.

I paid about $50 for my cell phone which includes a camera. A basic model is about $20. I pay $99 a year which provides something like 400 minutes of air time, and now that I've been with Tracfone for about three years I have about 1000 minutes. I don't use it much, but I'm glad to have it for emergencies and for other times when it's been very convenient. But I don't walk around or drive while yakking with someone about trivia.

I also have the cheapest landline available, a metered service, which costs about $25/month. And I now have FIOS, which includes TV, phone, and 100 Mbps internet for about $120/month including taxes and fees.

The "free phone" for low income individuals is administered by Tracfone and it seems to be the lowest cost option at about $10/month. Many of these people are invalids or live in high crime areas where emergency service is vital. I would hope most of these people are not burning up minutes arguing with their abusive boy/girlfriends while buying twinkies with food stamps at the convenience store, but at least most prepaid plans still allow calls to 911 after your minutes have run out.

Paul

I have been doing my taxes myself, using an Excel spreadsheet, and I did have a bit of a problem with my HSA last year. A call to the IRS and an email to an AARP on-line tax advisor did not really give me the information I needed, but I think I got it right.

My HSA contributions for 2008 were $5150, which I put on line 2. Line 3 was $2900, and copied to lines 5 and 6. I had $900 for line 7, so line 8 was $3800. This was my total HSA deduction on line 13, and copied to line 25 of the 1040.

My total distributions from all HSAs was $5406, on line 14a, line 14b was $1350 for excess contributions withdrawn, and line 14c was the difference, or $4056. Line 15, unreimbursed medical expenses, was the same as my HSA distributions, or $5406. So lines 16 and 17 were zero. Because I withdrew more than I deposited in 2008, the excess was really still my money that just happened to have spent some time in the HSA account rather than my personal account. So I added the excess contributions withdrawn to my other medical expenses, including those paid by check or credit card, and my insurance premiums, and they were included in my total medical and dental expenses, modified by total income, and shown on my schedule A.

I'm pretty sure it is correct, and at least it was an honest effort. I finally submitted my return after an extension, in October, and I got my refund of $3360. That sounds good, but the reason is that I overpaid my witholding, expecting a better business year, but instead I made only a few thousand from my S-corp.

The IRS knows better than to question my tax returns. When they have, they found mistakes that were in my favor and they had to pay me for their efforts!

Paul

[...]

Similar here except that it's around $5/mo so less than $99/year. These fees pay for airtime at 18c/min and I never use it up. It's VirginMobile on the Sprint network.

$120/mo? Yikes! I pay $25/mo for broadband Internet and around $20 for a landline. No LD registered because we use a 3rd party. Weirdest thing:

For biz I use a rate of 3c/min nationwide via a card. Calls to companies in Quebec are charged at 7c/min. When I use the 1010 number that we have for international then much of Europe is 2c/min and Quebec costs

0.5c/min. Really strange.

AFAIK any cell phone, even an expired/unregistered/whatever one can be used to call 911. Sorry, I don't see the need for this expense.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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Use another domain or send PM.

PagePlus has a deal where you only have to spend $10 (100 minutes) every three months to keep the service and minutes roll over indefinitely. Higher usage gets cheaper than the $.10/min. AIUI, they use the Verizon network so coverage is excellent. I'm thinking about dumping my regular Verizon service for PagePlus.

I pay well more than that and have no land line at all. My Internet service just got downgraded to 768k, too. :-(

Some areas used cell phones are given to residents of battered women's shelters just in case they need to call 911. They're also useful to stuff into glove boxes for emergency use.

That's even better than my $15 every 90 days deal but so far I am happy. Had coverage where others with their fancy phone didn't.

Oh, out in the boonies with satellite service?

That's what they do out here as well. I really don't see a need for providing cell phones with paid plans in a welfare environment. Welfare is supposed to support basic needs only.

--
Regards, Joerg

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OK, but do you support the government giving cash (checks) to welfare recipients that some of them might then choose to spend on cell phones? Or would you limit welfare to material goods (food, shelter, health care, maybe bus passes?, etc.?)

Realistically you can't get a job without having a phone number. While that doesn't imply you must have a cell phone, I know one local restaurant where they have enough applicants these days that if they call back and don't get an answer by the applicant him or herself (i.e., they get voicemail or a shared line at a shelter or similar), they just toss the application and move on to the next. :-(

---Joel

Limit to material goods because cash will be squandered by many. Cigarettes, booze, DVD rentals and so on. Seen it.

We already pay a tax for subsidized phone service and that ought to be enough. People get a landline, pay more or less nothing and it's limited to a small number or LD or local long-distance minutes. They can always be called at that number. They can probably get more if, for example, someone gifts them a phone card. A $20 Costco phone card has a whopping

700 long-distance minutes on there. Tons more than $20 buys on a cell carrier network. Sorry, but I really do not think a cell phone is appropriate in those cases.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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You've probably also seen folks trying to sell their foodstamps for cash then too. :-(

But I suppose it does make it at least a little hader to abuse the system...

---Joel

You left out gold teeth and grills. Mike

Close, I had someone offer to buy food for me so I could give them the money.

Once had a fellow that walked passed my business, ask on three occasions for money. I told him no everytime, the third time he made it clear if I was every down on my luck not to come to him for money cause he wouldn't give it to me. Ya, I think he's right. About three days later I saw him cross the street with a case of beer.

Also was in line behind a guy that had a packed cart, at one point he stopped the cashier and said total that, then he paid with a foodstamp card, repeated this two more times with two more foodstamp cards. At the end of the third run he had two gallons of milk that he decided not to get. He did pay cash for a 12 pack of beer. I don't know anything about foodstamps, but it doesn't seem anyone would have more than one card. The rest of us in line had quite a conversation. Mike

One for each member of the family, perhaps? (I think your kids start getting foodstamps once they hit 18 if you're no longer declaring them as dependent -- and they apply for them -- even if they are still living with you... although perhaps this varies from state to state too though...)

I wouldn't personally want to eliminate all cash with welfare, but I would support a move towards trying to provided specific-purpose vouchers for most items with, e.g., only, say, $50-100/mo in discretionary cash. It's a very difficult balancing act, trying to not unduly burden the taxpayers whose monies are being forcibly taken for redistribution while still allowing the recipients a bit of discretion in determining how best to get back on their feet.

---Joel

I'm currently paying about $60/mo for two cell phones from VZW. I don't use my phone much but my wife uses hers a little more (she calls the brat). I still think it would save money to go prepaid.

Not really out in the boonies. I live inside the city limits but no cable TV, so yes, satellite TV and crappy AT&T DSL. They just downgraded us, after being without service for a week, because now we live too far from the CO (we didn't for a year and a half). The problem was really a dead modem.

Oh, but that's too hard on them. It's not "fair". The kids need $300 sneakers, too.

No.

Yes, and *very* basic.

Basic (incoming only - toll outbound) phone service is available fairly cheaply in most areas.

of

have

don't

I bet that a large percentage, if not the majority, would fare better on prepaid. They just don't know it. And it's not that you ever have to run out of minutes. If I got into a situation where I'd have to talk up a storm for days I could buy extra minutes.

costs

Hmm, I am on AT&T DSL for years. Initially it was rocky but now very good. Around 99% uptime I'd say. But they did drop Usenet ... hurumph!

and

arguing

calls

Seriously, we had people who rejected nice and almost brand-new winter jackets because they didn't like the style. For some reason my 10 year old winter jacket is just fine for me.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Yeah, but if you have no money at all and no job, what do you do? I'm OK with, "give the number of the shelter you're staying at" or "give the number of the unemployment office" and having them take a message, but I was pointing out that at least some businesses today seem to equate "no cell phone" with "not worth bothering with," which isn't good for the individual nor the tax payer since it means good people will just be on welfare that much longer.

Although again, I can't really suggest with a completely straight face that this problem implies that the government should be handing out cell phones. I'd rather see a (privately-funded!) campaign to remind businesses that we're all in this together, and given the economy right now that whenever possible they should try to be a little more patient with their customers who'll be more likely to pay slowly, not expect that applicants as able to jump quite as fast as when they could afford a cell phone and their own car vs. now relying on a landline and public transportation, etc. The problem I see is that too many people make the assumption that "bad situation" equates to "bad person." Take a look at this:

-- there are an awful lot of unepmloyed people right now who are very good, hard-working people.

What do you think of the proposal to waive federal wage taxes (paid by the employer) for the 1st year (for workers who are retained for at least a year)?

---Joel