ICs have leads. Rockettes have legs.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
The parts are really, really tiny. Maybe I could send tubes of them out and have them laser remarked. It's like the tattoo parlors that specialize in changing an old girlfriend's name into the new one.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
I've used an electric draftsman's eraser with an ink eraser insert... just abrasive enough to take off markings.
But a serious competitor would X-ray... I've done that ;-) ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Tried that. It didn't work very well, and made a mess.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
That is how the reverse engineering thieves of the 80s did it.
Chips (most) are just too dense these days and the costs are too high to attempt such thievery these days.
He just wants to keep them from directly copying the circuit with great ease. Placing a roadblock in their way, as it were.
Bad idea!
They generate thousands of volts of static charge, and I guarantee there will be ESD events. Every single lead/pin/ball/contact/LEG must be shorted together to keep ESD events from getting inside the chip. There WILL be ESD events if you blow silica grit over an insulator, such as that which packaging mediums are made from. You cannot stop it.
Most are laser etched, these days.
--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
(Richard Feynman)
In some cases you can just read the logo and numbers off the die:
Eg. (LTC3442)
Even if the number on the die is not the same as the part number, having the manufacturer's name and some idea of the chip's innards will tie it down a lot.
The machine I sent you a link to can do it to them even after they are soldered in, so you would only need to do it to actual product, and you know right where everything is.
That also solves location/handling issues. Let the picker placer put them in a known place (the circuit card), and then have the laser torch those specific locations. It can even burn the barcode or UID in the labeling area on the card too.
Elaborate? Outside inability to repair and inability to become your competitor, what other reasons would anybody have to complain?
Anything mechanical, electrical or chemical done to the chips, especially after assembly has to reduce the reliability of the product. The fewer processes, the better.
The cost benefit ratio of this project sounds high.
Glass Fiber Eraser. Art
Why would you be concerned about customers knowing what ICs you are = using?=20 Will they roll their own and stop using yours? Not likely unless it's=20 something they use a lot of and they could justify the NRE of making a=20 clone. Why would they examine the unit so closely, unless it stopped = working=20 and they wanted to repair it?
My previous version Ortmaster product used a Maxim MAX167 12 bit A/D=20 converter, and the distributor for the product, who bundled it with his=20 software, was afraid that his customers would make their own instrument = if=20 they had the schematics and/or the part number of the IC, so I usually=20 sanded off the markings. He was also worried that people would copy his=20 software so he used a parallel port dongle. He encrypted the data files = for=20 time/current curves which were supposedly proprietary and kept secret by = a=20 large company (Cooper), who had taken the data from their tests of their =
reclosers and published the curves on paper, but used the original data=20 points in their V-Pro software.
He was most worried about one large customer, Solomon, and he said they = were=20 working on software and hardware that would replace my Ortmaster and his = TCC=20 program. By around 2002 it was becoming a problem for customers to use=20 legacy computers with MSDOS and parallel ports, and the software and=20 hardware would not run on any version of Windows except Win95 (and maybe =
Win98) in true MSDOS mode. So he had me design a version of the = Ortmaster=20 that would work on a serial port (and then a USB port), while he = developed=20 new software for his curve verification application. I had my device = working=20 within 6 months, but he offloaded the software on a part-time student = who=20 insisted on using DotNet because that's what he was studying, and then = the=20 guy quit, and he got another developer to work on it.
But there was never any software spec and things never seemed to work = right.=20 Customers were calling and emailing me and asking when the new version = would=20 be ready, and all I could say is that Roy was working on his part, but = they=20 called him and he never returned calls. I got calls from Solomon and = they=20 were working on their own version because they could not get any=20 satisfaction from Roy. After 5 or 6 years of this, I developed my own=20 comprehensive software package and I've been selling it directly to=20 customers since 2009. And my biggest customer was Solomon. Roy still has = had=20 the same website at
Paul
I'm doing things that are very off-brand, not obvious use of parts, and I'd rather that nobody else know what can be done with some of these parts. We demo a lot of units to people who could potentially make their own, or have *their* customers make something similar, and an NDA is pretty thin protection.
That could happen. I'd rather tempt them as little as possible.
Why would they examine the unit so closely, unless it stopped working
A lot of this stuff will be sold as OEM board-only, not even a box. Not that a box adds much mystery.
That they do!
How about just potting the whole thing?
That's really messy. And it will wreck all my trace impedances.
[snip]
The customers could actually critique Larkin's designs ?? ...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at
Critique this:
About a minute on a 600 grit diamond plate. Lap wet to keep the stone from clogging with slurry. One minute more on a 1200 plate gives a nice shine. Wet-dry paper would probably work, available in grits up to 3,000, considerably cheaper than diamond.
g?
This reminds me of my first employer, who designed a telephone circuit board around a low noise 741 op amp whose performance no manufacturer could guarantee. So we did 100% incoming test to sort the low noise performers. Luckily the fallout could be used in other products.
I hope you're using them per their data sheets.
Are they stupid? Because stupid people think they can save money by developing test equipment in house. Smart people do it only when there are no economic alternatives. Their engineers' time is better spent developing product than developing test equipment. Assuming you provide prompt service, handholding, and integrate their needs into new product, you should never have to worry about them rolling their own.
What happens if you're hit by a bus and then the unit breaks? Do they now own an expensive paperweight?
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