Sanding IC part numbers (rant)

Sorry, but I have to have a rant about the practice of sanding part numbers from ICs.

NB, if anyone here thinks it is a good idea, you should get yourself some re-edcation.

I bought one of those X-Arcade arcade joysticks from a company known as X Gaming. On the whole, I've been very pleased with the product. However, after what some may call excessive use, the screws on one of the joysticks worked loose, and the motion of the package caused some of the crimped joints around the joystick to fail (as it transpired). OK, the think has a long wrranty (about 7 years or something), but I didn't want to wait however many days (one would be too many:) to have it fixed, so I opened it up and imagine my rage when I found that the ICs have the part numbers sanded off.

What kind of an idiot thinks that is a good idea. I bought their product in good faith. Secondly, the important part of the product is the arcade joystick and arcade buttons, not the way it interfaces with the computer (through the keyboard port). So why in hells name did they need to sand the part numbers off the chip?! To stop a competitor figuring out how to make a computer keyboard even though the specs have been freely avaliable for the last 25 years? Why does anyone feel the need to do this?

The ICs are one 8 pin one, one 14 pin one (I'd put money on them being a

555 and a 74?xx) and one biggish one.

It would have made my life a lot easier if I could ahve just looked up the IC data sheet, figure out what was going where and then start my search. As it was, it turned out to be the crimp joints, but being able to make sense of what does what would have made my life much easier.

OK, so in this case, it turned out not to matter too much. But in 6 years time, when the next fault occurs and my warranty is gone, then what? I guess I'll have to make my own keyboard controller instead of fix theirs...

I'd like to mention that apart from indulging in the rather abhorrent practice of sanding part numbers, I'm otherwise extremely pleased with the product. But it's amazing how much you can piss off otherwise very happy customers.

-Ed

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(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.)       (er258)(@)(eng.cam)(.ac.uk)

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Reply to
E. Rosten
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if this arcade joystick is so good would the manufacturer want somebody to copy this joystick? thats why he makes the part number unreadable. Maybe you can sign a non disclosure agrement and they will send you the specs.

Reply to
Ryan Wheeler

While I agree that the active circuitry (and hence the interface to the keyboard port) may be the unique thing about this joystick, one of the things clear over the years is that sanding (and other schemes to prevent copying) tends to hurt the consumer more than the company.

If this unit is so unique, then it's well worth my time if I was a company wanting to copy it, to do the work to figure out what was going on. This is likely harder with a microcontroller onboard, but spending the time results in the income from the bootleg copies.

But, if I as a consumer gets something that I can't read the devices, then the work I do to uncover what's in there, so I can do replacement or fix something that doesn't work as I like it, can only apply to my personal use. The cost goes way up then, and I may not bother then. That means the piece gets junked when it comes to repair time.

I once knew someone who was making some small kits for various hobby activities, selling them mail order. Some of them did have the IC numbers sanded off. But, at least one of them was straight out of an application book. That's a rather odd situation. But, realistically it also meant that one just had to do a bit of research to uncover what device it was. At best, it only slowed down the imagined copycatters.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Black

The good bit about the joystick are the joysticks, the microswitches, the buttons and the very sturdy box. That's what you're paying for in this joystick. The electronic part is trivial and does absoloutely nothing unusual: all the inputs to it are are binary, from a bunch of microswitches, and these are read out and sent along the keyboard interface. I could hack that together with a PIC in a small amount of time. The circuit is by far the easiest bit to copy. Now, designing the joysticks that can take a real hammering and are guarnteed for 7 years is very difficult. That's what I'm paying for.

My point is, why hide the only unremarkable part of the device?

-Ed

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(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.)       (er258)(@)(eng.cam)(.ac.uk)

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Reply to
E. Rosten

I am a designer, and I am manufacturing a small instrument that uses readily available ICs off the shelf that make my unit function.

Yes, the PN#s are sanded...... why?? For the exact reason that even IF you have a patent, some Chinese or other manufacturing companies located elsewhere may overlook this and copy your equipment for a customer....... This has happened to several companies I deal with.

So even the Chinese now sand their ICs........ making it harder for other Chinese companies to copy their copied stuff...

Yes, it makes servicing the item MUCH more difficult...... but usually the manual says "no user servicable parts inside". This is the standard disclosure that allows manufacturers or distributors to be free and clear of the consumer regarding consumer attempted repairs.

I begged a distributor to send me a schematic on an amplifier...... it was missing components (removed by someone "attempting" to repair it, then it was given to me to fix!), they would not release the information, EVEN if I wanted to purchase the schematics.... Finally, someone there sent me the schematics (the technician there gave me the wrong pn#s, luckily I never listened to him, the schematics were the ONLY way to repair it).

Anyhow, point is......... most equipment doesn't have sanded IC identification, but look at the place of manufacture..... if in China, I bet it has sanded ICs.... or ICs you can't get here!! (in North America at least).

I understand your frustration though........ but the people buying my product cannot service it, the PCB is epoxy encapsulated for weather proofing. ;)

Reply to
Jfet

Or maybe you could loan a logic probe and logic analyzer and let the OP check the mystery part. I'd check pin 3 of that 8 pin chip to see if it has clock signal. If pin 3 is pulsing, the chip is probably 555 timer. If it's not pulsing, it could be an op amp.

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Reply to
Impmon

There are more layers to this. There was at least one company that used metal shielding and potting to keep others from reverse engineering their design. The metal shielding was to prevent the use of X-rays.

It's protection of intellectual property and protection of earning power. There are at leat two rather disharmonious points of view on this subject, by the way,

Reply to
Charles Schuler

For much the same reason that companies won't release source code or interface specifications, even when a sane market analysis would indicate this would get them more customers without helping their competitors.

It's an irrational possessiveness, I think - "mine, mine, precccccious!". I've felt the temptation myself, whenever I've come up with any design I thought was particularly clever. I have to keep reminding myself "your competition has engineers just as smart as you who will probably come up with a better idea anyway, and it will piss off your customers and decrease sales." There's a tendency to want to believe that one's idea, even the only benefit it has over the reference design is that it saved two resistors, is an untoucable piece of brilliance which could never possibly be recreated by anyone else who didn't steal it.

Reply to
Terran Melconian

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