This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores the fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to the same screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or PC. Does this mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC frame rates, just as TV video? What about streaming video? Is that also converted into frames before display?
Yes. PC graphics cards can usually provide either 50 or 60Hz refresh rates at HD resolution (and often much higher than that). I'd expect most laptops to be able to output a suitable frame rate but you might end up with a monochrome result if it can't fully meet the chroma spec.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
OK, so this means then that even if I bought a new TV here in Europe, it could only display the TV screen, but may not display my laptop's screen that I brought from the US. That one works with 60 Hz video rate, not 50 that is used in the PAL standard. I would be worse off than now, when I can at least use my NTSC TV monitor as a full HD 1080p x 1920 external display with my laptop. Remember, my goal was to have a dual use HDMI monitor that would display either a TV program or my laptop screen with just the flip of a switch. I guess I had the mistaken notion about the HDMI standard, thinking that it does away with all that ancient frame rate business by turning video into some kind of universal streaming scheme.
Cameo wrote in news:qnfu6s$cm5$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
You should not experience a problem with any HDMI compliant display being fed by any compliant device over a properly compliant cable.
Did you buy a shitbox $3.00 hdmi cable?
There should not have been any issue and the HDMI handshake should have dropped (or raised) the frame rate if the display required it.
I think the issue was with the set top box being tied to a narrow scope of attachable devices. But even that does not sound right as HDMI is not supposed to have an issue here.
I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel parts of those games. I did n't repair the games, but the monitors that I've seen were RGB, not composi te. They had a 20? pin header and used a short ribbon cable to connect to t he video output.
Some TVs had the same problem. The large steel chassis would become magneti zed, over time. Some were caused by kids playing with magnets to intentiona l distort the image.
I manufactured and sold some heavy duty Degaussing coils for the job. You c ould see the field on a color CRT from 25 feet. You didn't use them on the faceplate, because they would damage the shadow mask, but they did what the y were supposed to on every piece of magnetized hardware in the sets.
I did this while I was in high school, in the '60s. It was the first produc t that I designed and built I used a piece of sheet aluminum to mount a 15A rated C&K pushbutton momentary switch, and they had a 20 foot power cord. It was better that the $80 General Cement product, and thanks to well stock ed surplus stores I made a nice profit at $25. That had a six foot cord, an d the inline switch was made to turn a table lamp on or off. They were a fi re hazard.
I still have the prototype in my home shop.
You would have to try it in store to see if it worked in practice. I'd expect at least some EU TVs to work OK. There is a fairly significant following for playing Region 1 DVDs in the UK not sure about the rest of Europe. Over here you can buy easily chipped DVDs in supermarkets. You just have to look in the appropriate home cinema or computer magazines to find out the way to hack them into region free mode. I'm not sure if they playback NTSC content by dropping frames or at 5/6th real speed.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
Was that an old VGA computer monitor with only 640 x 480 resolution ? .
US standard television resolution was 480i (NTSC 525/60) , so it was easy to let the VGA monitor also display a TV signal.
Most likely 576i (PAL 625/50) requiring a 720 x 576 LCD display panel.
If you had a VGA only, no luck, unless you have a down converter.
In the beginning of the century some VGA resolution (640 x 480) LCD and plasmas as well as some projectors were sold in Europe with a down converter, which your monitor seems to be lacking.
In the US the 1080i HD started in the CRT era, while in practice, most CRTs were actually 540p since they did not implement proper interlacing and the beam width and shadow mask resolution was too bad.
HD started later in Europe and practically no HD TVs were sold with CRTs, most were 720p or 1080p LCDs from the beginning.
Regarding analog CRT televisions, the horizontal rate is nearly identical, so any TV will achieve horizontal synch (except ancient UK
405 and French 819 line). The horizontal defalcation is implemented with high power component close to resonance, so a radical change in horizontal rate requires switching high power capacitors and/or inductors.The difference between 50 and 60 Hz might be a challenge for older TVs. However, for a few decades TVs in Europe will have a large lock in range on the vertical side, so they also accept 60 Hz TV signals, thus working both in Americas as well as in the rest of the world.
While most modern analog televisions may synchronize regardless of system, but will show a black nd with picture when subjected to the wrong colour standard.
Early LCD and plasmas were only capable of displaying their natural resolution, but modern equipment contain a scan converter, so they should be able to display any TV standard.
This is the type of response I was hoping to hear from somebody. I don't think I used a shitty HDMI cable, but I am not sure if it was one of the cables that came with the TV set or with some other product I bought, or one that I bought separately. But I can try some other cables, just in case.
I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I specifically mentioned LCD monitor in my original post. Just so there is no more misunderstanding about which Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:
And my laptop is Lenovo Z00 IdeaPad:
You should have specified the monitor type in your initial posting. It appears to be a newer version that I originally assumed.
If nothing else helps, the cheapest way of getting a TV program to the screen is getting a USB TV-stick for your PC, the DVB-T version for antenna reception or DVB-C for cable reception. Costs well below 100 euros for SD.
Michael Terrell wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright video arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the cocktail units did it.
And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as well.
Integrated coils? Big deal. The built in Degaussing was never designed to demagnetize anything except the shadow mask and the CRT mounting hardware.
Any real TV tech knew better. That's why service trucks carried an external coil to degauss the CRT of color sets when they were delivered.
I used to laugh at Furniture and Tire stores that sold Color TVs. They just opened the crates and plugged them in. They always looked bad.
The task of setting up a TV or monitor was just too far above their pay gra de.
I learned the details of proper degaussing at 13, while working part time i n a TV shop. The older techs knew a lot of tricks of the trade! Most couldn 't design a circuit, but they could follow a schematic and find the problem s. I also learned that cheap, lightweight coils were crap.
I started with those damned 17" to 21" round CRTs, many of which had steel bells. Those were a real bitch to degauss!
Perhaps this is a DRM issue.
I think HDMI includes DRM handshaking.
mark
Michael Terrell wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
I liked going into the shop as we went home and taking a magnet to a unit someone like you just spent a half hour degaussing, just to f*ck with his head the next morning. :-) (just kidding) (I threw him a charged HV cap)
It never took more than a few minutes with the proper tool, which proves th at you are clueless about the process. Anyone who tried a stunt like that w ould have been fired on the spot. Most TVs or monitors could have the three screens calibrated, the CRT degauused and a full convergence done in 15 m inutes or less.
Ironically, the so called 'video game techs' that I knew in SW Ohio had bee n fired from better jobs. One worked for me for less than a week before I h ad to fire him from the Industrial Electronics company that I owned. Even t hen, he would stop by the shop with a schematic and want us to tell him how to actually repair a board that he couldn't just shotgun back to life.
He had a pissy attitude just like yours, and I couldn't trust him to work i n the local schools. He mouthed off to the students, and the girls complain ed about him.
You remind me of the moron in HS that went around the shop classes with a w elding hammer to hit his classmates in their nuts. Three of them grabbed hi m as he was laughing at one of them that he had just hit with it. They left him sobbing on the floor with that hammer.
We didn't put up with morons like you where anyone could get hurt. It didn' t matter if it was in school, on the job or in the Military. You would have likely been fragged if you were sent to a war zone. You need to grow up.
the "driver" constains a registry entry
HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-81,56-75,+,+"
if I'm reading that correctly that means it does 30-81 kHz horizontal and 56-75 Hz vertical.
Which explains why it's not working with a PAL source.
-- When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
That smells like bullshit.
The earths magnetic field is not entirely horizontal in most locations. and the electrons in the tube are moving too fast for gravity to have much effect.
-- When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
I agree. If there was a significant problem with the Earth's magnetic field affecting colour CRT TVs it would also affect them depending on their orientation with respect to North in the home.
The Earth's magnetic field has a non-trivial vertical component which varies with latitude. A more likely explanation for why big colour monitors don't like being installed horizontal is that the shadow mask support relies on gravity to be in its reference position.
It is only horizontal near the equator. In the US and UK the dip angle varies from 30-35 degrees with latitude.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
Wow! Where did you find the driver code? In any case, the registry entry would only play a role when Windows screen is output on that monitor and not when the monitor is connected directly to the PAL set-top box via HDMI cable. And THAT's where my problem is.
Yes but the point is that your LCD display doesn't claim to be able to do a frame rate that is as slow as 50Hz. TBH I'm surprised its PSU is sufficiently well made to be used outside the USA on 240v mains.
My European HP made monitor claims:
HKR, "MODES\1920,1200",Mode1,,"30-94,48-85,+,+"
So its supported vertical sync rates at HD do include PAL 50Hz.
The only way to find out if your laptop is capable of driving a particular TV over HDMI is to try it and see (unless you can see from the specifications that it will accept both PAL & NTSC frame rates).
I expect some to display a monochrome only image if they can handle the frame rate but not the alternative chroma encoding.
BTW some monitors and maybe TVs too have an option somewhere deep in their config pages to analyse a video feed and suggest in which modes they can support displaying it (or recommend a better mode).
-- Regards, Martin Brown
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