Four Dead and no Mention Here

The Trump cultists don't believe there is such a thing as a "lawful government" - they believe Trump is the Messiah and will do whatever he says. Trump told them that the election was "stolen", that weak Republicans would not save the country, and that they needed to be strong and forceful - so they stormed the Capitol. Fortunately for your country, the violent cultists are either thick as two short planks, completely insane, or both - thus they had no idea what they were doing as their glorious leader left them to it so that he could deny responsibility.

They never had "control" of the Capitol, but they did invade it and wander around breaking things, shouting, taking selfies (that will make the prosecutions easier) and looking confused. They had no plan, nor could they form a cohesive thought about what to do next.

The police and building security concentrated on protecting the people and getting them out or to safe areas - rightly so. And they were also very careful to avoid violence and retaliation - again, rightly so, as violence could quickly spread in that situation. With those priorities, it meant losing ground and letting the mob in.

Then the police gradually and carefully pushed them out again.

Most of the mob were not seriously armed - that is an advantage of DC being a city with strict gun control. They had not even brought many melee weapons, since they had no idea what they were doing. But a fair number had bulletproof vests, and there was a lot of mace and pepper spray used against the police.

Two pipe bombs were found - one outside the Republican headquarters, and one outside the Democrats headquarters.

Yes - demanded by various people, then authorised by Pence. (Not by Trump, though he claimed credit for it.)

Indeed.

But there are now serious calls - from high-level Republicans - that he should be declared unfit for duty and replaced by Pence for the next two weeks.

It appears that there is some calm again around the Capitol, but Trump will continue to entertain for some time to come.

Yes.

I'm not so sure about that. The history books are more likely to treat Trum p as peculiar aberration - an aspect of hanging onto half-baked electoral s ystem for a little too long.

The fatuous screw-ups he was more or less responsible for aren't going to g et a lot of attention.

Even the 369,990 dead from Covid-19 aren't going to get all that much atten tion - other-less-than competent national leaders have done just as badly. Once the point has been made that he couldn't administer his way out of a p aper bag, and really didn't even bother to try to get anything right, there isn't going to be lot to be learned from the details of his various incomp etent antics.

The broken and undemocratic election system used in the USA is a side-track. It's an important issue, of course - it is absurd that a candidate can lose the popular vote and win the presidency, that there are significantly different rules across the country, and that some peoples' votes count many times more than other peoples'.

However, Trump's antics are not the result of the electoral college system - they are the result of his continual denial of reality, paranoia and megalomania. He'd have reacted in much the same way even with an election system like Canada or France.

Of course they are. People the world over know about Nixon, even if they weren't born when the events took place - and he only had /one/ serious illegal screw-up.

It all depends on how things go in the USA in the future. If - as we must all hope - Trump's four years represent a particularly low point in the country's political history (rather than merely the lowest so far), then it will be remembered for that. It will be remembered for what can go wrong, and how a democratic country can end up with a leader who is so self-centred, incompetent and utterly unsuitable for office, for how much damage he did in his time, and how much work it took to fix things. If it is not the low point, then his time will be remembered as the beginning of the end of the USA.

In the UK constituency system a party can lose the popular vote and still have more MPs (and hence form the government). /All/ systems will have their corner cases.

The other points appear to be particular to the US.

Yes, the UK also has its outdated and somewhat broken electoral system - it is /not/ a good model. (The Scottish parliament uses a type of proportional representation, which mostly eliminates this particular problem.) But at least the constituency system has the same rules for everyone across the country, and has the constituencies divided roughly by population count and doesn't re-arrange borders based on which ruling party wants to get more seats next election.

They do indeed. But there's a difference between a few bumps and corners, and the numerous messes in the US system. (Note that I am talking about systematic faults here - not the kind of imagined fraud that deranged minds believe occurred.)

On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 3:29:05 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com w rote:

azed. I get that Trump supporters are very disappointed and even ready to t ake rash actions to prevent what they see as a miscarriage of justice. I ca n't imagine someone having drunk the Kool Aid to the point of committing tr eason against the lawful government. I don't know what to do with those peo ple either.

ding before they were forced out again. I didn't read any details but the r eports did mention the mob being armed although the police injuries were mu ch less than the insurgents suffered. There was mention of explosive and in cendiary devices found in the area. The National Guard was called in.

much harm. I expected the DC community would prevent him from being effecti ve at all. The reality is no one has been able to contain the damage that m an has done and continues to do.

Yup, and so starts the setup for why Biden and the democrats are gonna fail . We are just 13 days from the ultimate dream sweep (Pres, House and a mir aculous -COME FROM BEHIND senate victory) and here we are talking about how all is lost because of Donald Trump and those awful supporters of his..... And so starts the narrative.....If only those bad people (70 million Trump supports) were not so vile and evil, why we would be able to Usher in Parad ise.

I would think you would be dancing in the street knowing you kicked the con servatives asses and thinking about how to move the democrat agenda forward . Instead, already, Trump and his supporters just make it impossible to ge t anything good done.

Oh yeah? It is attempted, and sometimes changes do favour those in power. In theory there is an impartial electoral commission to oversee such things.

amazed. I get that Trump supporters are very disappointed and even ready to take rash actions to prevent what they see as a miscarriage of justice. I can't imagine someone having drunk the Kool Aid to the point of committing treason against the lawful government. I don't know what to do with those p eople either.

ilding before they were forced out again. I didn't read any details but the reports did mention the mob being armed although the police injuries were much less than the insurgents suffered. There was mention of explosive and incendiary devices found in the area. The National Guard was called in.

e much harm. I expected the DC community would prevent him from being effec tive at all. The reality is no one has been able to contain the damage that man has done and continues to do.

il. We are just 13 days from the ultimate dream sweep (Pres, House and a mi raculous -COME FROM BEHIND senate victory) and here we are talking about ho w all is lost because of Donald Trump and those awful supporters of his.... .And so starts the narrative.....If only those bad people (70 million Trump supports) were not so vile and evil, why we would be able to Usher in Para dise.

onservatives asses and thinking about how to move the democrat agenda forwa rd. Instead, already, Trump and his supporters just make it impossible to g et anything good done.

It is so rich, someone calling out a Trmp detractor for claiming his action s will hamper the new administration - because that is what Trmp supporters have done for the last four years, blame everything on the previous admini stration rather than own up to their own inadequacies. Even three years in to the Trmp presidency there was talk about how Obama's administration mess ed up the current administration's efforts to fight the pandemic.

I think this is a great example of why Trmp has followers, so many people c an't even read with comprehension. You are making statements about my post that are factually incorrect and then demonizing Democrats about your misu nderstandings. I never said anything about Trmp hampering the new administ ration. Go back and read what I wrote rather than what you imagined. I am talking about the "best" advisors Trmp could find not being able to preven t the big baby from rampaging across this country, from the first day of hi s Presidency trying to get reelected by dividing the country and stirring u p hatred. That is why we have crowds storming the Capitol building and yet more deaths.

But the new administration won't be hampered by Trmp. They will need to tr y to repair foreign relations which *have* been severely damaged, possibly irreparably. So yeah, some things Trmp did will be very hard to set right. While the big angry baby cozied up to Kim allowing him to continue at ful l speed with his missile development and nukes relations with Iran were tra shed allowing them to reach 20% enrichment. Angry Baby Trmp won't be aroun d, his presence will be felt for a long time to come.

Yes.

There are continual allegations that such things occur - but it is difficult to "prove" since they are nowhere near as blatant as in the US.

At least people who are broke have an excuse.

But "engineers" like the above - are human trash. There's a warm place in Hell for them.

amazed. I get that Trump supporters are very disappointed and even ready t o take rash actions to prevent what they see as a miscarriage of justice. I can't imagine someone having drunk the Kool Aid to the point of committing treason against the lawful government. I don't know what to do with those people either.

uilding before they were forced out again. I didn't read any details but th e reports did mention the mob being armed although the police injuries were much less than the insurgents suffered. There was mention of explosive and incendiary devices found in the area. The National Guard was called in.

se much harm. I expected the DC community would prevent him from being effe ctive at all. The reality is no one has been able to contain the damage tha t man has done and continues to do.

fail. We are just 13 days from the ultimate dream sweep (Pres, House and a miraculous -COME FROM BEHIND senate victory) and here we are talking about how all is lost because of Donald Trump and those awful supporters of his.. ...And so starts the narrative.....If only those bad people (70 million Tru mp supports) were not so vile and evil, why we would be able to Usher in Pa radise.

conservatives asses and thinking about how to move the democrat agenda for ward. Instead, already, Trump and his supporters just make it impossible to get anything good done.

What is the difference between a religious zealot and a democrat?

The religious zealot threatens hell in the next life for those who do not b elieve, whereas , the democrat tries to put the unbelievers into hell on ea rth ASAP.

Impossible to get anything done? these delusional Trump-cult cases will be lucky to make it through the next couple years with their lives if they keep it up.

You're a whack-job either way and your fate is your own.

so amazed. I get that Trump supporters are very disappointed and even ready to take rash actions to prevent what they see as a miscarriage of justice. I can't imagine someone having drunk the Kool Aid to the point of committi ng treason against the lawful government. I don't know what to do with thos e people either.

building before they were forced out again. I didn't read any details but the reports did mention the mob being armed although the police injuries we re much less than the insurgents suffered. There was mention of explosive a nd incendiary devices found in the area. The National Guard was called in.

ause much harm. I expected the DC community would prevent him from being ef fective at all. The reality is no one has been able to contain the damage t hat man has done and continues to do.

a fail. We are just 13 days from the ultimate dream sweep (Pres, House and a miraculous -COME FROM BEHIND senate victory) and here we are talking abou t how all is lost because of Donald Trump and those awful supporters of his .....And so starts the narrative.....If only those bad people (70 million T rump supports) were not so vile and evil, why we would be able to Usher in Paradise.

he conservatives asses and thinking about how to move the democrat agenda f orward. Instead, already, Trump and his supporters just make it impossible to get anything good done.

ot believe, whereas , the democrat tries to put the unbelievers into hell o n earth ASAP.

I have never quite understood how when the left wins they seem to get more angry, whereas I would normally expect the winners to generally be happy. Go ahead and rub it in or gloat, sure, but winning just seems to piss off l efties more than losing does.

I haven't posted an off-topic thread about this election, ever. Gloat? Here? To you?

You do have a high opinion of yourself. If you don't like what I say in other people's off-topic threads then don't read them.

Am 07.01.21 um 23:22 schrieb Brent Locher:

The religious zealot is more than happy to induce the next life. Burning someone at the stake is the specialty of the religious.

or Carcassonne. "Kill them all, the Lord knows His."

Gerhard

All acting like I've gone about seeking his commentary to make myself feel better about myself or something:

ot believe, whereas , the democrat tries to put the unbelievers into hell o n earth ASAP.

I always get a chuckle how people see the sins of religious zealots from hu ndreds of years ago, but the millions killed in the name of no-religion in the last century does not seem to pose any lessons.

PS: I have a lot more respect relatively speaking for a Trumper who stormed the Capitol and put their ass on the line for something real, misguided as it may be, than a cheerleader who sat home and talked like a Brent Locher.