E-Meter?

It is same as the one for b-meter.

Google is your friend. e-meter schematic.

Thomas

Decades ago I moved into an apartment where the previous tenant had apparently been a member of some substantial standing. A catalog appeared in my mailbox. This wasn't sealed and I paged through it. It provided a list of all the levels of classes for members to work through and gave all the prices. $795 is a TINY fraction of the cost, even two decades ago!

I think the catalog was sent bulk rate and I discarded it.

Maybe that should be bs-meter.

Bullshit

And use extra bandwidth?

Boris Mohar wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

What does the 'b' stand for?

Zak wrote in news:423d2d4b$0$15788$ snipped-for-privacy@cachenews.cambrium.nl:

It's really a g-meter, measuring galvanic skin response.

The schematic is trivial. I want the ranges of the sensor and the amplifier.

Does anybody else think $795 is too expensive for a two cans and a volt meter?

I didn't want to say anything critical about them.

If I remember, I think the catalog did describe a lower cost option where beginners practiced on each other, and the high priced option where you paid for the attention and services of more experienced people. But neither of those were free. However, that was a long time ago and I have no knowledge what things might be like today.

And again, I not a critic. Just reporting now ancient information.

I think that in more conventional therapy lots of ideas seem to work well enough that people keep doing them. Martin Seligman has an interesting paragraph in "What You Can Change and What You Can't" about how even if someone questions your methods in court it is likely that you can find someone who will defend your practice.

I think I recall multiple new levels being named above "clear", perhaps because enough had gotten there and needed new heights to achieve.

We certainly need some substantial advance in the therapy business. And pharmacuticals aren't yet the answer to all these problems.

This makes me think of the diet industry in this country, the customers can't get out of it and just keep paying, in cash and otherwise.

But I'm not cricizing scientologists, I don't want to go there.

snipped-for-privacy@agora.rdrop.com (Don Taylor) wrote in news:pMudnc9rh4MrXqDfRVn- snipped-for-privacy@scnresearch.com:

Scientologists have an unpleasant reputation for gouging their members for their "services." Their offer of the option of working off your debt directly leads to their reputation as cultists, because their classes run up yur debt so fast that everybody gets in waay over their heads.

So Scientology has become the domain of the wealthy only, in this case Hollywood actors. If you can afford it, you just pay your bills and get your "psychotherapy," but if you're poor, you're caught in their spider's web.

The sad thing is that their auditing seems to work. Its basis is to interview subjects hooked up to g-meters, while asking probing questions about the subject's youth and relationships with important people. They probe until they find all your sensitive spots and then start working at them.

I don't know what sort of coaching they give, but they coach and probe and coach and probe until you stop overreacting to having your buttons pushed. Then you're pronounced "clear," which is just their proprietary jargon for mentally healthy.

It seems to me that the normal mental health industry could learn a lot from those guys. Real publications in psychology journals are long overdue, and should have been done in the fifties.

But for an honest price of $800, they could hook their g-meter up to an oscilloscope and record time data of the interview, like polygraph examiners do. They seem to be falling behind the times.

Their usurious prices inhibit the technological advancement of their machinery, by pricing most customers out of the market. It destroys incentive to retain market share by improving the product.

Mark Jones wrote in news:Cpidnem3jN3zJqDfRVn-sA@buckeye- express.com:

LOL. Perhaps it should be the BM meter.

But seriously, the meter works. It's the members who use it to mind-rape the newbies. The meter is just an amoral machine. It's the hyper- unethical values of the so-called practitioners that make Scientology a cult, not the gizmo. This is what happens when powerful mind control techniques are put into the hands of ignorant, unprincipled, greedy, defensive zealots.

Jeez, I hope they're not listening.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Death to Smoochy wrote (in ) about 'a certain sort of Meter?', on Mon, 21 Mar 2005:

Subject line changed for obvious reasons

It is certainly alleged that there are automatic monitors scanning the net for the S... word and other key expressions and recording all the messages and mentions.

I hoped it might be enough for me not to criticize them. ....

Oh good grief. Nope, not me, I'm just curious about brains.

Been a long time since I helped design those.

If we want to try to drag this conversation back towards electronics then there are a variety of measurements that could be made that might not be easy to do but would be very interesting.

Could we build a plausibly priced gadget that would reliably tell a vet whether a pet was in pain or not, perhaps even where?

Could we build a cheap garage prototype microtesla magnetic field generator, ala Dr. Michael Persinger, but which would have a much greater degree of control over the shape and position of the field than what he has thus far published?

Could we find a way to confirm or refute my hypothesis that most of tinnitus is a failure in the automatic gain control system that is built into the auditory system?

Could we find a way to modestly speed up or slow down nerve conduction in the limbs only on one side of the body, that would be constant and could be applied for a relatively long period of time and would not cause any other changes?

Each of those might have consequences doing a lot of good.

and, back to the previous posting...

Someone, perhaps you, said something about the flow of money involved. That provoked me to think about the flow of money from people looking for other kinds of help. Perhaps that "$150 a bottle" diet pill ad on the tv I just saw made me think there was a parallel. Never mind, probably just me rambling again.

snipped-for-privacy@agora.rdrop.com (Don Taylor) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@scnresearch.com:

You may need to protect yourself with a clever alias.

I wonder if you can get the sensors, without the gauge.

They're a pretty big group, so the organization may move slowly.

The field of psychology doesn't seem to advance very quickly. Or perhaps that's the field of therapy, much of which is simply teaching patients things every therapist knows.

If you pay for the testimony, you can probably get people to say anything.

Sounds like an addiction.

Are you a therapist?

Nothing about oscilloscopes?

I don't follow.

John Woodgate wrote in news:tqu+ snipped-for-privacy@jmwa.demon.co.uk:

Protect yourself with a snappy alias!

How's that for obfuscation?

Considering their "fair game" policy, that's a common reaction.

A never ending series of new and expensive levels to achieve. OT-3 is the one where you find out that you were brought to earth by Xenu.

BTDT, got the threat letter from their lawyer.

Really. Limiting this to higher vertebrates, what are the "current methods" that you are thinking of? Having observed this a bit, maybe I've just missed something someone is using. You look at a cat, the cat doesn't seem like it wants to tell you if something is hurting or where it is hurting, unless you start prodding with your fingers and look for a flinch, or perhaps withdraw and go wash the blood off your fingers as one vet did when trying this on Jack for the first time. That seems a lot less than would be interesting to know.

Persinger is applying varying low level magnetic fields to the temporal region and publishing a variety of results. But he admits in print that the current techniques of a handful of reed relay coils strapped to the head, a short iron rod slipped into the core of each and a few d-to-a to drive these still means it is prodding in the dark. I don't know how fine a "probe" could be constructed to try tickling particular regions.

Being able to put a field of a few microtesla, varying in what looks to me a lot like a pseudorandom pattern, in an area perhaps the size of a pencil or perhaps the size of your finger, and move that around slowly in the temporal region would probably be a great start.

Short term exposure to loud noise shows temporary tinnitus like symptoms afterwards. Long term can result in some being labelled tinnitus. But an accepted and testable mechanism for tinnitus, other than very special unusual sub-cases, doesn't seem like it has been found yet. If we could pretty clearly point to evidence of a particular mechanism, even in one or a few subjects, maybe someone could think of a cute method to counteract that. But without any mechanism we are still groping.

Naaa... no need to invoke Star Trek to say something can't be done.

I have a few papers buried here somewhere, one where they were able to fuse amphibian embryos at the 4 cell stage and end up with some normal adult amphibians, where 1/2 the body was from one embryo and the other from the other. Slip in a mutation for thinner or thicker myelin on the nerves and that would be one way.

But there might be some better way than that, less open to questions about other changes being induced at the same time. There are external things we can do to a limb that can change nerve conduction rate in one limb but they leave the door open for the same questions. Looking for a really cute solution, that can be measured and used consistently.

Not trying to abuse test subjects, well other than perhaps myself, with any of this.

I remember a guy who almost made a career of publishing little teaser articles on his study of bat ultrasound production. Every paper gave a tiny bit of information, with promises that the next paper would reveal the real scoop. None of them seemed to really provide the answers. But worse, in my opinion, the things he tried didn't seem to have that elegant brilliant idea to narrow this down, at least until he thought of having the bat breathe a bit of helium and then measure the frequency. That seemed like the first really cute idea that he had, and it didn't even carve up any more little guys in the process. And I believe the helium paper was actually surprising because it didn't give the change in frequency you might expect if this was a resonant cavity. But it has been a while and I may have mixed up the details.

thanks don

I read in sci.electronics.design that Don Taylor wrote (in ) about 'E-Meter?', on Tue, 22 Mar 2005:

Current methods work reasonably well for the higher vertebrates. For insects, Arachnidae and fish - good luck!

What's this about? Magnetic fields are (one of) my field. What shape and position would you like? (;-)

Failure of the AGC manifests as 'recruitment', I think. But I agree that the ear/brain system can be quite reasonably modelled as an array of narrow-band amplifiers with AGC, and defective amplifiers can become noisy in many ways.

I think you need a tricorder to do that.

Neither am I.

I discussed the possibility with a neurophysiology researcher at one time, whether there might be something in the brain that could be feasibly sensed if the body was hammering the brain with pain messages.

Jack is much better than he used to be, I haven't seriously bled in a while, and he has a prominent note in his vet chart, enough that I see their eyebrows go up when they open the chart :)

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Oh well... thanks anyway, I'll look elsewhere

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Without a mechanism I don't think there will likely be any progress. The only new idea in the last few decades was the loud white noise "maskers" and those were only discovered in an accidental observation by a subject.

I thought the response was a reasonable match

Nope. But something else much more interesting might be observed, if we had a handful of subjects to try to average out the variation.

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I can imagine