Dell used to not suck

Yeah. I just bought two new "Precision" workstations that are a mechanical mess. The case design is awful and the floppies are unreliable due to mechanical stupidities. Their support people told me to reinstall Windows, the single time I got a human to respond.

The electronics looks fine, but they garbled the packaging pretty badly. The support is either email robots or people in India reading scripts.

Who makes good PCs these days?

John

I buy mine from PC Club, down on the corner. If I have a problem (never have), I'd just walk in.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Danfysik. They are parts-per-million accurate. The low-end units, the head with electronics but no power supply or burden resistor, are something like $500. The US rep is GMW.

Julian Bergoz makes some extreme stuff.

LEM makes some hall+feedback sensors, pretty good but not as accurate.

I designed a DCCT once, for SLAC. They didn't buy any.

John

I've had bad experiences with the Fry's in Palo Alto. They practically strip-search you on the way out to verify all your stuff against the receipt. And they repackage returns and sell them as new. I bought an inkjet printer and when I opened the box, the cartrige was installed and there was ink everywhere. It had obviously been repacked.

John

Local place in Mesa Arizona called SoftQue. Bunch of tech guys work there. They sold me a nice 2 gig machine for $550. All components garanteed 'generic' as possible.

I always have looked for the smallish computer places since I bought my first IMSAI.

--
Luhan Monat: luhanis(at)yahoo(dot)com
http://members.cox.net/berniekm
"Any sufficiently advanced magick is
indistinguishable from technology."

Same deal here in L.A. The thieving bastards just shrink wrap returns as is and place them back on the shelf along with a 'reconditioned to original factory spec's by Fry's technicians' sticker.

Bob

Fry's and a day spent assembling it.

Yes, Fry's sucks for some things. I've had issues with their 'new' printers too.

Much better to buy the components online and build the system yourself. Or, better yet, hire a college kid to come in and do it for you. It's trivial, takes about 2 hours to put one together, and another couple of hours to install XP and the drivers.

--
Regards,
  Bob Monsen

Fry's employs those people who don't qualify to flip burgers or mow lawns ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I go to one of the little computer shops I trust, tell them exactly what to use for each part (or ask their advice if I haven't researched it) and get them to put it together and set it up (and transfer data if I want). More expensive (and takes more time to buy), but I know exactly what's in there, and it's all interchangable industry-standard brand-name stuff (even the case, and especially the power supply). All the parts come from a small number of wholesalers, and what they don't have in stock they get the next day, so it's not too bad once I've figured out what I need.

The mass-produced stuff is fine for someone *else* to use for word processing or whatever, but I really don't want to have to use it myself. The stores take credit cards, and the small shops all want cash or debit (or a big surcharger), but that's a minor inconvenience.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Unfortunate experience ?

Graham

Unfortunately, whatever the story with the hardware, they have gone back again to using the phone 'farm' in India. They did this about three years ago, for a short time, then moved it back following the complaints. They have gone back again recently. The quality of phone support has switched to 'appalling'. Even buying the computers is hard with the new system, and whereas in the past the larger company contacts had UK numbers, these are now routed to the same phone system. :-( They have moved down about ten places in my rating system, and are heading downward fast...

Best Wishes

My KeithKits have always been superb. The 24/7 on-site support beats anything out there on the market now.

The fact is that there is no money in PeeCees these days, so what you buy is crap. You can build decent stuff though.

--
  Keith

NewEgg.com is my favorite place to buy. Good prices, good selection, and great service.

Keep the kid on retainer for a few bananas. I do my own, since my time isn't even worth even a few bananas after work (can't contract, so it's either the computer or the toob).

--
  Keith

John,

I like to make my own. Usually a mix a parts between Central Computer on Stevens Creek in Santa Clara and Fry's. (This within driving distance from the OP's Palo Alto, for non South San Francisco Bay readers).

For new retail-boxed peripherals, I do the web.

at least used to be pretty good, but wwww.pricegrabber.com has been getting my nod lately for a price search engine.

--Mike

I still like Dell. I usually buy from the "small business" part of their website.

I configure the system on-line and get it shipped to me without ever talking to a person.

When I have built my own systems or ordered from smaller places, I always seemed to end up with a really noisy system. The Dells I've received have always been fairly quiet. I hate noisy fans and hard-drives.

My two most recent purchases were one each Dell Dimension 2400 and 3000 systems. No problems yet, and they are quiet enough for me out of the box.

Obviously, your mileage does vary. ;-)

--Mac

Is that the new BTX case with a fan at the front ?

Yeah - the support is shit. We had a 2 yr old Dell PSU fail about a yr ago. It was *obvious* the psu had failed but support insisted on going through some 'diagnostics' for 20 mins and decided it must be the mobo ! Guy arrived, realised it was the mobo but had to fit it anyway since he was a contract engineer and had to do what he's told. He couldn't bring a PSU since they only got issued what 'support' tell them they need.

Eventually the PSU was replaced ( it took 5 days ). It cost us about £150 to get the 24 hr onsite warranty upgrade and that was the result !

Oh *and* we had to reactive Windoze on account of the mobo replacement ! Duh.

It's ppl in India reading scripts.

Pot luck I think.

I made my own last one. Takes ages to install everything ( esp building the raid array ) but you know what's there !

Graham

In the UK that would not only be illegal ( Sale of Goods Act and misrepresentation ) but we have local trading standards ppl who could go over there and tell them to cut it out pronto ( no solicitors req'd ). They'd be taken to court and fined if they persisted too.

Graham

Haha ! You should have seen the fun I had installing a network card driver recently !

Graham