Coronavirus and the Heart

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

This guy hits on that too...

Nice to see you're keeping your typically ebullient, positive mental outlook on the situation, Fred. @@

Yep. Perhaps it would help if I explain how a few things about autopsies. This is mostly about California. Other states will have different laws and procedures.

When Is an Autopsy Required in California?

Notice that an autopsy is required by Calif law if this is any: Suspicion of infectious or contagious disease

but NOT required if: 14. Suspected contagious disease (constituting a public health hazard)

This is not the oxymoron that it might seem at first glance. The rule of thumb is that if someone dies while under the direct care of a doctor in attendance, no autopsy is required. That's generally the situation if someone dies in a hospital, but NOT the situation when someone dies at home. Needless to say, the coroners office does not enjoy handling highly contagious corpses. They rubber stamp the paperwork with something mundane like cardiac arrest and expedite delivery to the nearest available crematorium. Note that it takes time for the coroners office to do an autopsy and process a proper death certificate. My guess(tm) is at least a week.

Assigning the COD (cause of death) to be cardiac arrest has a long history, going back to perhaps the middle ages, when there was a real danger of being buried alive. This is no longer a problem, being replaced instead by zombies or the living dead. One of my doctor friends told me a story from the late 1930's, where as a student, he worked for the Chicago coroners office. Illinois had enacted a mandatory autopsy law that left the coroners office with the problems of how do deal with the fairly large number of people that were dying from alcohol poisoning and how to pay for the medical staff required to make a proper determination of the COD especially in the presence of degenerative diseases often found in older people. So, to save money, the label "cardiac arrest, cause unspecified" became the default COD: Notice that using this code is consistent with a medical service having been performed and is therefore billable. After a few years of tagging every death in Chicago in this manner, medical researchers soon discovered that living in Chicago might be unhealthy for those with cardiovascular problems. This produced a short lived exodus to warmer climates among seniors.

It would probably be a good idea to be more specific in filling out the death certificate for those suspected of dying from COVID-19. However, until the safety issues are properly solved, an effective treatment is developed, and hopefully a usable vaccine is contrived, expediency will continue to be the norm in identifying the COD.

What is the exit strategy for the economic lockdown?

A common, and probably silly, prediction is that there will be oscillatory cycles of lockdown relief and re-infection, multiple peaks. But however we relax lockdown, it will free some people to go out and get infected.

My big question: did/does lockdown net save lives? Or just prolong the chaos? Or even cost lives?

doesn't mean it actually was. The majority don't have a clue about the kin ds of more subtle damage that can occur. They could have suffered internal organ damage that will develop into serious chronic illness later in time, maybe decades. It is more likely than not that many of the millions people who have been "exposed" are damaged in some way.

eatedly with corona virus infection over decades of study, could and likely does explain the so-called higher mortality "second wave" fiasco expected in fall 2020/ winter 2021.

Compared to what? What do you think will be the outcome if we do nothing? Once you have that, then we can consider approaches that may be better.

So what is your expectation if we do nothing and how did you come to the re sult?

I've often wondered if he uses a nym, and his real name is Jeremiah.

Varies from country to country. The important thing is to NOT do anything the WHO is demanding. Whatever they may or may not know about health, their standpoint is indefensible economically.

It will keep frontline healthcare workers almost constantly at the point of exhaustion (and beyond) for an indefinite period.

They should have let the damn thing rip IMO. Yes, many of us would die (and I'm at in an elevated risk group myself) but the dragged-out way this is being handled is going to have damaging and even ruinous economic consequences for a huge proportion of people all around the world.

Yes, especially the poorest places where people were already struggling to keep themselves and their kids alive.

Assuming that this is not just another seasonal cold, voluntary distancing and sanitation would be effective; enough people are terrified for that to mostly work. Shutting down the world economy for some indefinite time is doing a great deal of harm that will outlast this epidemic. This is not about "profit", it's about survival.

Again, I have seen no coherent plan for an exit strategy. Some places will extend the lockdown, some will go back to work soon, some have never locked down. Maybe some will lock down until there is a vaccine, in a year or two or never. We'll have data one day.

Prediction: this will increase migration from the big urban centers, especially US northeast, to lower density states. This will increase economic inequality.

Lower-density states have enough trouble keeping their populations fully-employed as it is. That's the reason they're low-density! If well-paid jobs were all over the place there would be more people! There's no well-paid work in say North Dakota unless you're qualified to work in the industries that are big there like mining or gas extraction or agriculture or military/defense. Otherwise you'll be working at Wal-Mart

One thing people can get even on a low income in Massachusetts is state-assisted healthcare and dental care at low or no cost. If you lose your job here you can at least still get medical coverage. What advantage is there to leaving that situation to move to e.g. North Dakota where you'll be making less money working one of the few service-industry jobs available than unemployment insurance pays, plus can't afford healthcare coverage?

Darn, I thought I had made an original observation.

The "let 'er rip" crowd demands the poor in the service industries get out there and die for them at lil protest gatherings for 20 minutes and then runs back home and hides and orders bougie take-out from GrubHub and types opinions into the computer like real bad-asses.

Cowardice is a conservative value

Ya, people sometimes leave the city with one of the highest costs-of-living on the planet, go figure. You don't have to move to Nebraska to live better on a smaller budget, though.

There are industries in Texas, Florida, Nevada. California is exporting businesses and skilled people to Texas.

There could be more companies moving to low-tax, low-crime, low-grime places like North Dakota, or more likely mid-density states like New Mexico or Arizona. ND is kind of extreme.

You are right, people with low incomes stay where they get benefits. People with marketable skills follow the jobs. People also make amazing sacrifices for their kids, when they can.

The trouble with "making it" when you're poor is that you can't absorb even small amounts of risk very well. It's like playing with short stacks in poker, you often have to fold on good hands simply because they're not great hands. This isn't evidence of being averse to change, learning new skills, or risk, intrinsically, it's evidence of playing somewhat smart. Players who go big on just-good hands with short stacks bust out soon far more often than not.

Very few people have absolutely nothing to lose and even when you're poor already, you can almost always find a way to end up in an even worse position than you were before.

On Sunday, April 26, 2020 at 1:01:45 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnolog y.com wrote:

doesn't mean it actually was. The majority don't have a clue about the kin ds of more subtle damage that can occur. They could have suffered internal organ damage that will develop into serious chronic illness later in time, maybe decades. It is more likely than not that many of the millions people who have been "exposed" are damaged in some way.

eatedly with corona virus infection over decades of study, could and likely does explain the so-called higher mortality "second wave" fiasco expected in fall 2020/ winter 2021.

They can end the lockdown right now as long as people resolve to use their masks, wash their hands, keep their distance and stay home if they feel sic k. The restaurant and bar/lounge industry as we know it is finished. Theate rs/cinema should be okay with audience reduction. Retail can resume with cr owd density control. All the paper pushers in the business workplace should be able to function as usual. Dunno exactly what those maniacs who scream and jump up and down at the stock exchange are doing, but they'll have to u se some other method to communicate. Tell them to adapt or die. All the edu cation stuff can go online and stay online- that part may be the best conse quence of the pandemic. We have enough infrastructure to support telework, videoconferencing , and remote computing. Make the people who need it use i t. Get all these damned commuters off the road. A lot of business travel es pecially as it pertains to sales is total bullshit. Make them go to skype o r similar. Hopefully all forms of vacation travel will be banned indefinite ly. Most factories and warehouse operations shouldn't have a problem, excep t for low end sweatshop operations which will need to shut down until they figure out how to modernize themselves. Construction is still ongoing and n o one is hearing about a bunch of people in that business getting sick. The governors are talking a good game, but just about all construction is cont inuing.

-industry The list of activities is near endless I'm sure. Government authority will have to implement a reporting system, rewards based I'm sure, so they can s hut down the abusers.

My original post is to stress that you don't want to catch this disease, p eriod.

On 4/26/2020 3:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

-4, snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

n, 26 Apr 2020 07:55:23 -0700 (PDT),

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

ne self-reports their virus infection was asymptomatic doesn't mean it actually was. The majority don't have a clue about the kinds of more subtle damage that can occur. They could have suffered internal organ damage that will develop into serious chronic illness later in time, maybe decades. It is more likely than not th at many of the millions people who have been "exposed" are damaged in some way.

sensitivity and disease enhancement, observed repeated ly with corona virus infection over decades of study, could and likely does explain the so-called higher mor tality "second wave" fiasco expected in fall 2020/ win ter 2021.

onomic lockdown?

t now as long as people resolve to use their masks, wa sh their hands, keep their distance and stay home if t hey feel sick. The restaurant and bar/lounge industry as we know it is finished. Theaters/cinema should be o kay with audience reduction. Retail can resume with cr owd density control. All the paper pushers in the busi ness workplace should be able to function as usual. Du nno exactly what those maniacs who scream and jump up and down at the stock exchange are doing, but they'll have to use some other method to communicate. Tell the m to adapt or die. All the education stuff can go onli ne and stay online- that part may be the best conseque nce of the pandemic. We have enough infrastructure to support telework, videoconferencing , and remote compu ting. Make the people who need it use it. Get all thes e damned commuters off the road. A lot of business tra vel especially as it pertains to sales is total bullsh it. Make them go to skype or similar. Hopefully all fo rms of vacation travel will be banned indefinitely. Mo st factories and warehouse operations shouldn't have a problem, except for low end sweatshop operations whic h will need to shut down until they figure out how to modernize themselves. Construction is still ongoing an d no one is hearing about a bunch of people in that bu siness getting sick. The governors are talking a good game, but just about all construction is continuing.

ties is near endless I'm sure. Government authority wi ll have to implement a reporting system, rewards based I'm sure, so they can shut down the abusers.

Y ou think the suburban mega-mall is finally done, too?

There's this big mall near me I used to go to as a kid. Its hey-day was in the early 90s. A number of o ther malls were closed but this one seemed to be han ging on still as of last year, mostly by re-orienting

towards women's clothing retailers, high-end jeweler s, "eSports" gaming facilities, stuff like that peop le still want to see in person.

Weird to think it m ay be the end for that place.

I wonder why companies keep packing offices and employees into places where a tiny 1br apartment costs 3K a month, and taxes and hassle are high. Maybe over-funded startups figure that's where the glitz is.

tic doesn't mean it actually was. The majority don't have a clue about the kinds of more subtle damage that can occur. They could have suffered intern al organ damage that will develop into serious chronic illness later in tim e, maybe decades. It is more likely than not that many of the millions peo ple who have been "exposed" are damaged in some way.

repeatedly with corona virus infection over decades of study, could and lik ely does explain the so-called higher mortality "second wave" fiasco expect ed in fall 2020/ winter 2021.

eir masks, wash their hands, keep their distance and stay home if they feel sick. The restaurant and bar/lounge industry as we know it is finished. Th eaters/cinema should be okay with audience reduction. Retail can resume wit h crowd density control. All the paper pushers in the business workplace sh ould be able to function as usual. Dunno exactly what those maniacs who scr eam and jump up and down at the stock exchange are doing, but they'll have to use some other method to communicate. Tell them to adapt or die. All the education stuff can go online and stay online- that part may be the best c onsequence of the pandemic. We have enough infrastructure to support telewo rk, videoconferencing , and remote computing. Make the people who need it u se it. Get all these damned commuters off the road. A lot of business trave l especially as it pertains to sales is total bullshit. Make them go to sky pe or similar. Hopefully all forms of vacation travel will be banned indefi nitely. Most factories and warehouse operations shouldn't have a problem, e xcept for low end sweatshop operations which will need to shut down until t hey figure out how to modernize themselves. Construction is still ongoing a nd no one is hearing about a bunch of people in that business getting sick. The governors are talking a good game, but just about all construction is continuing.

tion-industry

ill have to implement a reporting system, rewards based I'm sure, so they c an shut down the abusers.

Those food courts need to be shut down. That ought to keep the loiterers aw ay anyway. The handwriting has been on the wall for those dumps for decades now, they just refuse to die. Must be the older crowd keeping them going, but that bu nch is dying off, so it shouldn't be long now.

Backwards. My liberal/progressive friends are terrified to leave home. They won't even step inside our front door for free lemons; I leave a baggie outside for them to pick up. My rare conservative pals are going to work and not wearing masks. The huge range of fear and not-fear is impressive.

Again, you fantasize people who don't actually exist, so you can mock them. You seem to do that a lot.

Our occasional housekeeper lady isn't coming in now, but we are paying her anyhow. How's that for conservative greed?

This one lemon is all it will take for tonight's lemon pie.

This one, still on the tree, is about the size and shape of a small pumpkin.