Choosing a better capacitor

Jun 12, 2008 13 Replies

I started the Coleman Powermate thread a short time ago. The generator had a burned winding and a a bad capacitor. From info on the net I see that this capacitor often goes bad. The original is a Nichicon CE 85 degree C LS(M) additional letters on case are 0508 PET. It's a 470uf 200v capacitor. I want to replace it with a better capacitor. I disassembled the capacitor and found what I think is mechanical damage, I think it vibrated itself to death. I'm limited to



1 inch (25mm) height but could go larger than the original 25mm diameter. So I'm looking for a better cap to replace it. Also the cap was glued to the pcb with some very tough stuff, it is very tough to remove from the board. What do you suggest I use to remount the part to the pcb?

I have found these at Allied Electronics.



Illinois Capacitor 477LBA200M2DC. The pdf says "Rugged Design" I wonder, is it a better cap or is "Rugged Design" like "New and Improved"?

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Cornell Dubilier



200V
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the same in a slightly higher voltageSLP471M220E1P3 Cornell Dubilier 220V Anyone have a suggestion about a rugged duty capacitor for my generator? Thanks, Mike

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Cornell Dubilier

200V
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the same in a slightly higher voltageSLP471M220E1P3 Cornell Dubilier 220V Anyone have a suggestion about a rugged duty capacitor for my generator? Thanks, Mike

The ripple rating of about 1.5A isn't very high, not sure how much you need there. I'd ask an app engineer at a major capacitor manufacturer. After all, you don't really want the generator to go out again with so many freezers connected.

As someone had hinted in the other thread you could still run into a problem if two or more freezer compressors want to come on at about the same time. If they aren't linked but each has their own independent thermsotat that would be like the lottery.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.

Anyone have a suggestion about a rugged duty capacitor for my generator? Thanks, Mike

This looks like it might be the original cap,

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It has a ripple current max of 1.95Amps. So out of this list the only within that spec is the Illinois Capacitor
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Mike

[...]

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Mike

Somehow your links don't work. Found the Illionois on their site but it's only an 85C type. Maybe ok but personally I wouldn't do that.

These look pretty good and can tolerate almost 3A at 85C, Digikey has them:

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BTW, even if Coleman installed an 85C cap that doesn't mean this is good practice. At least not in a generator IMHO.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.

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200V
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AFAIR those are 85C caps. Might not be the ticket in a gasoline-powered generator.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.

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Cornell Dubilier

200V
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the same in a slightly higher voltageSLP471M220E1P3 Cornell Dubilier 220V Anyone have a suggestion about a rugged duty capacitor for my generator? Thanks, Mike

Some caps to consider (available from Digikey): ECO-S2DP471DA (30 mm Dia. 470uF 1.85A ripple) ECO-S2DP561DA (30 mm dia. 560 uF 2.43 A ripple) ECO-S2DP821EA (35 mm dia. 820 uF 2.93 A ripple)

Regards, John Popelish

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200V
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Perhaps, but I'll bet the electronics is cooled by the engine fan and comes no where near 85C.

Regards, John Popelish

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200V
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The way Mike described this generator I am not so sure about that.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.

The cap is as far from the engine as the unit will allow. So I don't think there is a lot of engine heat. Because I don't know the environment the cap is in, I wanted to upgrade as many specs as I could. Temp, Ripple, and VibrationVoltage. I don't have enough knowledge about AC generators to know how important the capacitance value is to the operation of the unit. (I suspect not much) I like the higher ripple current of the larger caps, especially since I haven't found a 470uf cap with higher ripple current than the original (1.95amps). Mike

I posted a drawing of the simple exciter circuit on >alt.binaries.schematics.electronic< Just for anyone else that may look for info on the Coleman Powermate Pro-Gen 5000. Mike PS. Thinking about bringing the capacitor connection points out and getting a scope reading at that point.

what is "bad" about the capacitor? Doesn't it call its mother once a week?

Jim

-- "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle

The generator

When I tested the cap on a capacitance tester it read in the nanofarad range but bounced around depending on position (it's a 470uf cap) It also rattled when I shook it. I cut it open and the foil from each plate was not attached to the pins, the plate/insulator unit was loose inside the cover. Also the plate/insulator unit had two dimples from the connection attachment rivets. Looked like it bounce off the rivet and pounded the dimples into it. I think it vibrated itself to death. Now regarding it's mother, she's very sad that her only baby died before she did. It's just not the natural progression. Mike :-)

Check the one I posted in the other reply:

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Takes much more ripple than the usual ones.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.

Harkening back to your remark that it was shaken to death, i think i would more interested in vibration isolation.

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