Change-over to enewable energy

John

and Republican cherry-picking of Democratic project that went sour tells us what?

That even if you won't vote Republican, you'll recycle their electoral propaganada?

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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That's not an argument.

Evaluate? How in heavens name do we evaluate the sort of non-linear process that turned off the Gulf-stream during the Younger Dryas? The IPCC won't even consider that kind of risk, because they can't model them, which strikes me as downright irresponsible.

We need to recognise that turning the global thermostat up a few degrees may have unexpected consequences, and chicken out.

Please specify what you think the "green" option actually is.

The argument that anthropogenic global warming is going on isn't "green", it is scientific. People who disagree with it are either ignorant or paid-for members of the denialist propaganda machine.

If you'd identify what you consider to be "popular", "green" and "dubious" arguments, we might have something to talk about.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

That billions of dollars are being wasted on illogical, political, "green" projects. And that most Democrats are idiots; some of them are nice people, some have their hearts in the right place, but most are idiots who tend to make things worse.

John

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What has psychology got to do with this discussion? Peer-review isn't a guarantee of quality, but having cleared that hurdle, their stuff is more credible than yours.

In other words you embedded your assumptions in the way you set up the problem.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

And we have a true believer. Anyone that does not agree with Bill can expect to receive the full treatment.

Dan

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On to your issue, politicians love discussing non-workable solutions to non-problems as an excuse to get more control. They are also quite oblivious to any potential or real problems with their championed "solutions". =20 See:=20

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The point is that publishing doesnt make a paper valid. The bar is too low to be of any use. Thus this line is a red herring.

Youre welcome to provide your own figures if you prefer, then suggest what services could be cut back by how much to meet the cost, and give some idea what the death toll would be. Perhaps that way we might find some common ground.

NT

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Then lets start with what we can model, at least approximately. If you slot your figures into my other post, we'll see where we stand.

A sizeable price hike on energy, due mainly to reduction in use of fossil fuels, and an assortment of fiddling legislation that only serves to make most areas of life take longer and cost more.

Slot your figures in, then at least we can potentially agree on the sort of damage one option would cost.

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Seeing Lake Nyos as a "potential problem" in a scheme to bury CO2 in an empty natural gas field several kilometres underground represents a degree of obliviousness to physical reality which would be remarkable even in a politician.

The CO2 dissolved deep in Lake Nyos stayed dissolved for a long time, but when the CO2 finally started coming out of solution and started rising towards the surface it dragged a lot of super-saturated water with it, producing a mechanical instability that delivered a great deal of CO2 to the surface remarkably quickly. It's hard to achieve that kind of effect under a couple of miles of geology.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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In the US situation, the obvious service to cut would be the corporate welfare in the defence budget. At the moment you spend some $700 billion on defence, when you two closest rivals - France and China - spend, in combination, some $175 billion, which - historically speaking, is all that you need to spend.

This leaves some $525 billion a year that you could spend on making your energy generation more renewable.

Granting that the Defence Budget is being spent - in part - on building and developing stuff to kill people, this diversion of resources might be seen as a potential life-saver.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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You've missed the bit about a substantial investment in renewable energy generation, and the observation that economies of scale will probably undo most - if not all - of the "sizeable price hike".

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

The suggestion that they might read s the American Institute of Physics web-pages on anthropogenic global warming?

It is a brutal assault, suggesting that the reader can't manage to read popular physics, but John Larkin - amongst others - has managed to shrug it off.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

...

The projects listed don't added up to billions of dollars, or anything like it. If the Republicans hadn't been able to find failures to froth at the mouth about, we can be pretty confident that there wouldn't have been any successes for them to ignore, and an unbiassed observer would write off the losses as the normal cost of encouraging a range of initiatives.

Whereas Republicans - such as Sarah Palin and Dubbya - are a bunch of intellectual giants who never put a foot wrong?

Even if you won't vote Republican, you seem happy to recycle their electoral propaganada and now seem to be trying to claim that it isn't even propaganda? As evidence that "most Democrats are idiots" fell a long way short of being convincing - so far short that it could be said that the Republicans must think that most voters are idiots.

You - of course - aren't an idiot, but merely so politically partisan that you don't realise that the propaganda you are recycling isn't remotely plausible.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Where is the supply and load modelling?

Or is it, as I suspect, just a lot of hand waving?

Sylvia.

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If that's the way you want to see it. Admittedly, it is insulting to point out that people are posting nonsense, but I'm not doing it because I want to insult them. I'm certainly not doing it to pick an argument - the kinds of arguments that get advanced in support of denialist nonsense aren't worthy of the name.

Arguments about electronics here - where many of the posters do know what they are talking about - are well worth provoking, since they can be very informative and have freed me of a couple of long-held misconceptions, and - no doubt - have performed similar services for other posters.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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It's Dr.Sloman, if you want the correct honorific and I'll refer you to

better researched cost figures than I could possibly come up with.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

That seems to be Slowman's latest buzz phrase, "rather better placed". What? With their heads up their asses ?:-)

Slowman seems to be trying out for President of the NIP's... Narcissistic Ignorant Pansies. ...Jim Thompson

In so far as it exists

It's fairly high-level hand-waving. Anything more authoratitive would cost serious money to put together.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen