CBO sees $3.7 trillion deficit in 2020 as debt exceeds size of economy for first time since World War II

decades.

ranted now.

"extortion" by any

t) does so.

en for centuries), by

d the impression that the GDP is this huge reservoir of wealth they can tap into at will. But, it's not nearly as big as they make it out to be. For o ne thing, government spending is included in the GDP, as idiotic as that so unds. And it amounts to typically 20-25% of GDP in a "good" year. It may go into 30-35% territory in the corona era. The useless fools can't sustain a n economy for more than 2-3 years before something crashes, which means it' s a really flimsy operation. So the kind of tax hikes you're talking about will probably kill it for a long time, and do more harm than good.

all the others.

as used SOLELY to pay off debt. But this is not done - any new tax revenue is spent long before it is collected. Furthermore, we have already shifted the tax burden to the wealthy. The top 10% by income used to pay 50% of all federal taxes in 1980 - now it is up to 70%. A similar shift has occurred in the top 1% and top 5%. There simply is not that much money left to tax. How many more hours would YOU work if the government took more than half of it? The bottom line is that politicians get elected by spending our money, not by cutting programs.

s in 2015? Not sure "income" is even the right way to assess wealth. Most of the very wealthy don't have much income. They make money by capital ga ins which are not "income".

t corporate tax rates were just lowered a couple of years ago. Undoing tax cuts instituted over the last few years would be a good start, no?

rich?

if they even enact a wealth tax (it didn't work in Europe). Wealth and inc ome are not the same thing (people can, and do, spend all of their income, leaving no wealth in the aftermath). About 70% of all federal taxes were pa id by the top 10% of earners in 2015.

by corporations are passed thru to us consumers thru higher prices.

n by a thread now. How many companies do you think will be posting profits in the next few quarters, anyhow?

other liberal lie.

id, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains ( which are taxed as part of the income tax). The really big money guys pays a lower tax rate than their secretaries... at least that is that Warren Bu ffet would have you believe. Is he lying?

t set tax rates, Congress does. Capital gains taxes are actually double tax ation because the income used to generate the capital gain has ALREADY been taxed at income tax rates. Nobel prize winner Milton Friedman thought that the correct capital gains tax rate was zero, but explained justification f or a lower rate thus:

It is meaningless because the top 10% are gaining a hugh share of the incom e. So it is inevitable they will pay more than 10% of the total taxes. Th e only way to have everyone pay the same share is to have a flat tax which no one wants.

Why does it matter if Buffett is a liberal or not??? He is stating a fact about taxes that IS relevant that the wealthy get taxed at lower rates beca use most of their income is capital gains. I suppose you are just deflecti ng from this fact.

ould stimulate the economy and produce a surplus. Never happened. Now we already have a huge deficit before piling on the trillions being spent on p ropping up everyone during this pandemic.

h outstanding economic results - until COVID hit and they shut the economy down. Deficits are the direct result of even higher spending by Congress.

Like Buffett you didn't lie here, but unlike Buffett you distort the truth. Yes, every year Trump has been in office the tax revenue has increased an d is at the highest levels. But that is exactly the same as nearly every y ear under nearly every President. Most of it is due to inflation and anoth er portion is due to the inevitable economic growth that is part of any eco nomy that isn't hurting. In other words, if your economy isn't growing (an d therefore the tax revenue) you are failing.

The point is the growth under Trump has been no more than under other Presi dents including Obama.

I like the way you want to blame the deficit on Congress. Congress passes bills, but Trump signs them into law. Trump signed the bills for spending just Congress passed the laws for tax cuts and Trump signed for that. If h e doesn't approve, he doesn't sign. If he signed, he must have approved. Bottom line, either he gets both credit and blame or neither. Pick one.

o a left hook all thanks to Trump.

nemployment and good income growth.

Again, Trump is the beneficiary of the previous administration's work diggi ng us out of the 2006-7 real estate bubble collapse. Unemployment peaked n ear the end of 2009 and dropped steadily ever since. So even Trump wasn't able to screw it up. Wonderful.

en he left office. All Trump needed to do was not f*ck it up.

a recession since the Great Depression (less than 1% in his last year).

And yet it was doing great as it was handed to Trump after growing 33% unde r Obama. BTW, your 1% number is a lie according to World Bank.

You really do have a knack for distorting the truth.

--

  Rick C. 

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Ricky C
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This is more serious:

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Of course, this could be number-inflation-alarmism, just like the prediction of 32 million C19 deaths in the US alone, but I fear not.

Maybe our lockdowns are not just wrecking our economy and saving some first-world lives, but will kill hundreds of times as many poor people. That's not unprecedented.

' His blunt warning:

"One way or another, the world will pay for this." '

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

Science teaches us to doubt. 

  Claude Bernard
Reply to
jlarkin

They could denominate in euros or roubles or something.

If anyone big decided to pay reasonable interest rates, the US could be in trouble.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

They are paying reasonable rates, by definition. It's an auction, prices set by the market. It's hard to fight the market. Most people do very well by not bucking the system that works.

Of course the peanut gallery always offers their two cents worth.

--

  Rick C. 

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Ricky C

.

Not going to happen because no other country needs so much money they would put a dent into the U.S. market. And just because some wackadoodle country puts up bonds and notes for sale, it doesn't mean anyone is going to inves t in them- chance of payback is zero. The really big hit comes when financial entities don't want or don't need t o invest in U.S. notes, then the Treasury has to raise rates to attract mor e sales. That's what's going to kill them. When you hold humongous debt, ev en a very small increase in yield/ interest translates into a humongous deb t service cost.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

No it isn't, that's the problem. The Constitution gives the federal government specifically limited power to tax, for certain specific purposes only (Article I, Section 8), including post offices, national defense, establishing courts, oversee treaties, and a national currency.

If we'd stuck to that we'd be in fine shape.

There's nothing in there about making the whole country bail out some faltering ACME Consolidated International, or paying someone's pension or medical costs, which are now 70-odd percent of annual spending (as of prior to Wuhan's Delight).

Spending more than you have makes sense? A government gleaning votes by promising all citizens a bounty of goods and labors of other citizens -- in amounts it can't possibly ever deliver -- is good?

Historically, those are all deadly.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

70%.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

If you tax capital gains, you destroy capital. Without capital, you're back in the Stone Ages.

Which pretty much happened -- the economy soared, and revenues did too. But Congress spent it all.

You're insane. The economy was awful, millions were driven from the labor force. I can't think of a single thing Obama did that wasn't investment, business, and employment kryptonite.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

You're right in theory but most of our debt is held by our own citizens. Most of them aren't likely to re-invest overseas chasing higher yield -- heck, I sure wouldn't.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

id, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains ( which are taxed as part of the income tax).

That is just absurd. You don't have capital gains until you liquidate the capital and gain financially. That profit on the gain in capital value is taxed... THE MONEY YOU NOW HAVE IS TAXED. No capital was harmed in the mak ing of this tax. Do you understand anything about finance?

.. at least that is that Warren Buffet would have you believe. Is he lying ?

ould stimulate the economy and produce a surplus.

There was no soaring, either in the economy or the taxes. It rose at the s ame rate it had been rising under Obama.

It's like being on a long trip on Rt 95 down the east coast. You pull over and let Trump drive and now he is bragging about the tremendous gains he i s making. He's closer to Mar-a-Lago than any other driver on this trip! H e has driven by the same speed limit and avoided running the car off the ro ad same as the previous... one President. The one before him ran it off th e road in 2007. Now Trump is running it off the road now by not being effe ctive in office and letting the country wallow in this disease.

he trillions being spent on propping up everyone during this pandemic.

o a left hook all thanks to Trump.

en he left office.

That's because you won't look at the numbers, the data. I think you were t he guy I had the conversation with where you claimed we had permanently los t momentum in economic growth. I had to actually draw lines on the data gr aph to show you the economy was back to growing at the same rate as before and this cycle had been repeated several times before. Or course you refus ed to acknowledge this and just stopped discussing it.

Why are you in denial of facts? I get that we all have our preferences of what we wish to support and the direction we'd like things to go. But fact s are facts. The economy was in the toilet when Obama took over as Preside nt. I'm not saying the economy only improved because Obama was running thi ngs. After all, it's not often that doctors actually heal the body. They mostly try not to do harm. Likewise a President should at least not do har m. Trump isn't very good at that.

--

  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Ricky C

Well, 100% would destroy it.

Tax capital gains a little maybe. Tax *financial transactions* to dampen the system.

Tax every email while you're at it.

Some people think we can tax our way to prosperity. Some people even think that politicians are smart.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Certainly they are smarter than a lot of people who think politicians aren't.

Taxes are a necessary evil. Like many things they are good in the right amount. We often have different opinions on what the right amount is.

Economics is a difficult field because of the great number of inputs, the many unknowns. That's not the same as saying it is not worthwhile to research and learn about.

It is easy to criticize even when no one has any better insight including the person criticizing. Often especially the person criticizing.

--

  Rick C. 

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Ricky C

id, dollar for dollar. Shouldn't matter if it is income or capital gains ( which are taxed as part of the income tax).

Only in James Arthur's cloud-cuckoo-land. The Dutch have been doing it for years.

Capital investment is just one way building up productive assets. Retained and re-invested surpluses are what are actually being mobilised. Having a f ree market to distribute them in the most cost-effective way can be useful, for certain sorts of services, but it isn't the only way - and as ENRON de monstrated, it can get screwed up.

.. at least that is that Warren Buffet would have you believe. Is he lying ?

ould stimulate the economy and produce a surplus.

As viewed through James Arthur's distorting spectacles.

he trillions being spent on propping up everyone during this pandemic.

o a left hook all thanks to Trump.

en he left office.

Well, James Arthur does like to think that. It's not remotely true, but it saves him from having to think about what the Tea Party astro-turfing did t o the Republican Party on it way to its degradation to the Donald Trump App reciation Party.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Bill Sloman

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