bit about transistor cost

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Intel Core i7-3770 @ 3.40GHz Intel Core i9-12900KF Intel Pentium 4 3.60GHz First Seen on Chart Q1 2012 Q4 2021 Q4 2008 Single Thread Rating 2074 4229 605

Not going to try to align the columns. From 2008 to 2012 the CPU processing speed increased over 3 fold. From 2008 to 2021 it increased barely 2 fold. The last 13 years provided less improvement than the previous 4 years.

You don't understand what I said.

All of that may be true, but Moore's observation was simply about the trend in the number of transistors on a die. That's all.

None of it matters. Larkin has deemed improvements in lithography to be pointless. So I expect the industry will stop advancing immediately. They just needed someone to explain things to them.

It didn't or at least not that I know of. We had a couple of working prototypes, but they did depend on Gigabit Logic's GaAs integrated circuits, and Gigabit got merged with a couple of other GaAs suppliers at the same time, partly because they couldn't produce the logic with a decent yield. If the machine had gone into production it would probably would have had to be re-worked within a year or so to use Motorola/ON-Semiconductor ECLinPS parts for the quick bits (which would probably have performed better in consequence).

Emissions requirements used to get tighter every year until it served no purpose to make 1000 cars emit less than one BBQ. Then they started subsidizing EV's. When everyone has an EV - or actually when no one has an ICE and a few have EV's and most have to take a bus - then they'll force us to change to something else.

First there was a century of advances in transportation, then it was communication. When something is good enough we have to find something else to make better and nobody has found it yet.

The giant advances will be in biology.

Most of us use mass market integrated circuits for purposes other than those for which circuits were designed and intended. This has been happening since integrated circuits were first introduced, and it 's unlikely to stop any time soon.

But you can makes something useful for another application which isn't popular enough to support the kind of volume production that car makers can go in for.

They never got remotely close to that.

Bizarre thinking - or rather a bizarre absence of thought.

That's because you don't have much of an imagination.

There have been some quite dramatic advances in biology already. Getting around to being able to engineer stuff on a small enough scale to take advantage of all of them may take a while. Semiconductor fabrication is essentially two dimensional - you can have quite a few layers, but essentially you start at the side and goes across a flat plane to the middle. Biological engineering is a bit more three-dimensional.

It would have needed serious water cooling to overclock a Pentium 3. My P3 portable actually damaged the surface finish of a table when left on power running a particularly heavy simulation overnight. Used on a lap at full speed it would almost certainly have resulted in serious burns!

Therein lies the problem. The stuff I am developing only cares about single thread performance so by moving from the i7-3770 to the latest and greatest i9-12900 I get just twice the speed for 4x the power used. It would be a lot more cost effective to buy another 3770 or 4770 (they are practically giving them away now as desktops have fallen out of fashion).

Curiously I can see what turns out to be a step backwards in the i7-3770 from my portable which is an i7-2670QM. The latter can correctly handle sincos simultaneous evaluation without a pipeline stall in my algorithm but the go faster 3770 cannot. I had assumed until now that it was a later chip with a lower number until I just looked it up.

It seems some of the trick used in the slower clocked low power portable CPUs either don't make it into the desktop CPUs or are inapplicable.

The i5-12600K looks like it might just be good enough. Improvements in the pipelining, sincos simultaneous evaluation and SSE extensions for tough floating point problems might just be enough to push it over 3x. On paper its floating point performance looks OK.

Wow. You live in such a defeatist world. Life must suck when you think it's pointless to try to improve it. I suppose you don't bother to vote, or is there a "surrender" party where you are?

How about medicine? Certainly there's room there for advances. I would much prefer to die quietly in my sleep at 95 than to die at 70 of pancreatic cancer.

So if we froze advancement of semiconductors where they are today and put all that money saved into medical research... Try to use what little imagination you have to picture the advances we could achieve! Maybe even Father Brown could use his head to help. Maybe we could find a vaccine for Covid! Oh, wait, we have those! The problem is we can't get people to take the vaccine because they don't believe in medical science.

Here's a good page to show how close we are to reaching herd immunity world wide.

I didn't say anything or anyone was defeated. To say that significant advances will happen in an unexpected area is obviously not defeatist. John's reply suggested that he understood what I meant.

Yes but his observation was that it doubled every year, or else the 8080 would have had only 250 transistors.

Not sure what you are talking about.

"Moore's law is the observation that the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit doubles about every two years. Moore's law is an observation and projection of a historical trend. Rather than a law of physics, it is an empirical relationship linked to gains from experience in production."

Wikipedia. If you don't trust them see what Synopsis says or any of dozens of other sources.

Maybe you intended to say something you didn't actually say?

Twenty years ago I told my daughter that if I was in the same position as a kid, I would choose life sciences as a career, rather than electronics and computing.

Even back then it was clear as day that new techniques meant bioscience was at the same stage of evolution as hardware was in the 60s.

That's still true, as is the concern that script kiddies will create biological viruses just as they created computer viruses.

There are two main forces driving consumer software development, reduced time-to-market by using higher levels of abstraction and trading of performance hits for reduced development time, vs. user irritation pushing back on those performance hits.

The underlying hardware is mostly irrelevant for the bulk of consumer applications because they don't really leverage the full capability of the hardware to begin with.

There are web pages that can grind a Haswell-core Celeron N3060 with a

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Thu, 9 Dec 2021 06:16:50 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <sos70h$ujh$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me.

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The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Thu, 9 Dec 2021 06:17:35 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <sos71v$ujh$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

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The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Thu, 9 Dec 2021 06:18:55 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <sos74f$ujh$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even follow it's own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

A decade ago you could overclock the crap out of a number of CPUs; stable clock boosts from 3.2 to 4 GHz and 25% performance gains on e.g. the AMD Phenom II Thuban-core weren't uncommon.

Those days are pretty much over you can't get gains like that anymore from overclocking. Incidentally i believe the Thuban core from circa

The follow-up Bulldozer core was known to be a poor performer on single threaded apps, there was a lawsuit over it.