A Product Design Invitation

Ok Guy. Have a happy life.

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Warmest Regards
  Bob Monsen

"Followup-To: sci.eIectronics.design,misc.misc"

Now thats sneaky. I'll take great pleasure from removing any reference to this new group from any of my replies. I prefer the endless US political crap to this kind of thing.

cheers,

Al

I'd call appending a type of editing.

It might be, but that is a separate issue.

Thanks! It was a serious apology, because you were right

Actually, I very much appreciate your use of nyms. It allows me to make a choice; read the fun/foolish things or the serious things. I wish others followed your policy.

..and a valuable lesson to those who aren't...

Alas, Supernews gives me a "newsgroup does not exist" error for alt.null. Alt.dev.null is a real newsgroup, and thus does not throw an error.

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What next, are you gonna filter out the Jews?

.... These ... aren't ... the ... droids ... I ... am ... looking ... for ... Move ... along ... now ...

Huh? I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention there for a moment.

Alas, they have a habit of suddenly injecting a post about electronics design into a political flamewar, so you have to scan the whole thing if you don't want to miss the on-topic part. :(

I doubt Webster's 1913 dictionary would have editing in the context of moderated newsgroups.

"EDIT: to alter, adapt, or refine."

So you didn't alter his post? It's bit-for-bit identical to what he intended to be sent?

A bit of nonsense isn't wisdom purely because a president said it. If you are calling a tail a leg, then clearly a typical dog has 5 legs (the

4 existing legs + the tail, aka your new leg). But you wouldn't call a tail a leg because it isn't.

This is just a word game anyway. I have more interesting arguments to waste my time on.

Al

I just set up a filter to send anything with your message-ID in the references line into the bit bucket.

Feel free to apply your whining about setting followups to your own actions.

You don't even have your friggin group going and you're already playing Hitler on personal grounds. No wonder you're lacking for things to do- and that's "do" as in "do a dog."

One person sets followups to an inappropriate group, I set a filter that only catches those misdirected followups, and this is the sort of over-the-top response I get. You appear to be investing a great deal of effort into criticizing what happens in a newsgroup that you seem to be uninterested in using. I wonder why that is?

We don't want you messing around with the headers, etc., of any postings in our public group. That's what'll happen if someone replies to an s.e.d. thread from within your group.

--
 Thanks,
    - Win

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As usual, your powers of perception seem to be misdirected.
I\'m not interested in critcizing the group, I\'m interested in
criticising _you_.

Guy is such a stinker. I point out, again and again, how he has mislead and manipulated the truth, and he once again post something using his 'voice of reason' tone, that *seems* reasonable on the outside, but implies that I and others have lied about him and posted misinformation.

This fellow either has no conscience, or simply perceives reality in some strange, paranoid way, and deserves nothing but pity.

Here is the truth, which I've been pointing out again and again, despite Guy's attempts to discredit me and twist my meaning:

If one cross-posts to a moderated newsgroup, the moderator of that newsgroup can reedit and possibly reject the post. If this happens, the posting will not go out to the unmoderated groups included in the cross-post.

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Regards,
  Bob Monsen

The following is typical guywanese... here is the actual nugget of information:

^^^^^^^^ = misc.business.product-dev, Guy's moderated group

His advice? Caveat Emptor! You need to check the post you are replying to for surreptitious changes to the followup-to: field. It is *your* fault that the 'guy' you are replying to changed the followup-to field to SCI.ELECTR0NICS.DESIGN (note the clever use of lookalike characters... can you spot the zero?), or alt.dev.null, or alt.misc.pictures.erotica in his message.

It is also your responsibility if you naively reply to a message without first deleting misc.business.product-dev from the crosspost groups, and have it then rejected by him because he lost a flame-war with you in an unmoderated newsgroup, and is still being a baby about it (or for any other arbitrary reason.)

I'd take this advice to heart.

As an additional warning, a time-honored usenet scheme occasionally stumbled upon by craven, lying bastards has been to become moderator of some unused moderated group, and then, while in a flame war, add a big list of other unused groups to the crosspost field, including their little kingdom somewhere in the mix. It is often done in stages, with more and more groups added as the flames go back and forth, until the hapless victim doesn't know which posts are coming from which groups. Once the moderated group is inserted, the attacker has the ability to reject or edit the post of his adversary. I first saw this used, to stunning effect, in 1985.

I'd watch for this one as well!

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Regards,
  Bob Monsen

Yes.

I don't object to moderated groups in principle. I subscribe to one already. Also most mailing lists are under a single persons control, and these can work very well.

But, in my opinion a moderator must be *seen* to be free of personal bias, like any other type of arbitrator or "referee".

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John Devereux

Please consider the following classes of posts:

[1] Posts by you to sci.electronics.design. I have no ability (or desire) to mess with them in any way. Your post went through uoregon.edu, sdsu.edu, Earthlink, Newsguy and Supernews (and several other servers) on the way to my computer, and not a single one of those systems met your criteria of "not messing with your post in any way." Every one of them made a change. Thus I must sadly inform you that you will never get what you say you want. [2] Posts by you to misc.business.product-dev. If you post to a moderated newsgroup, you should expect possible rejection of your post or moderator's comments. These are all bog-standard moderator actions, and if you don't like that fact you are free to choose not to post to moderated newsgroups. You should have an expectation that nobody edits the words that you write, and I know of no moderator (including me) that does that. Yes, there is a theoretical possibility of a moderator doing that, but in my case I would have to do the following to do it:

I would have to inform ISC.ORG that I no longer wish to have stump.algebra.com be my moderation server and I would have to set up one of my own. Igor Chudov runs stump.algebra.com, and his ReadySTUMP moderation software doesn't have any provision for editing the text of a post. I doubt that anyone has ever asked for that feature, and he wouldn't implement it if they did ask for it. See [

]. So, as long as you see in the headers that stump.algebra.com is in the headers, you can be assured that I lack the ability to "mess with" your posts other than the normal actions that hundreds of moderators do every day without anyone complaining.

[3] Posts by others to sci.electronics.design. That's none of your business. Let's say someone wants to email their posts to me and to pay me to edit them for content. That would be between me and them. Unless someone does something like that, see [1] explaining that I can't change such posts. [4] Posts by others to misc.business.product-dev. None of your business. See [2] and [3]. [5] Crossposts by you to s.e.d and m.b.p-d. Same answer as [2]. Don't crosspost to moderated newsgroups if you don't wish your posts to be moderated. You are responsible for deciding where your posts go. If you allow someone else (such as the person you are replying to) to make that decision for you, be a man and don't whine about the consequences of your bad decisions. [5] Crossposts by others to s.e.d and m.b.p-d. None of your business. See [2] through [4] above.

Not possible in sci.electronics.design. Too many ineducable people with incorrect information about how moderation works. Too many people who make up things out of whole cloth in an attempt to keep a flame war going.

If anyone has any criticisms of the way I moderate, they can post them to misc.business.product-dev wit [POLICY] in the header, and I will approve that post. If they wish to use their psychic powers to predict some future malfeasance, they have sci.electronics.design to do it in.