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That's great but not every car has that. Still, I like to be able to have an almost complete coast on ice which a stick shift provides. Also, the new Audis of A6 size seem not to be able to get the 35mpg I was able to get with my big Audi station and manual transmission. The new owner was looking at the cash for clunkers deal they had over there but his mechanic said "Don't give up that car". Amazing, over 22 years old now and still without problems. He's put tons of miles on it because he must often travel between Germany and northern Sweden.

If they were more or less equal weight vehicles then it would have to be down to user error (unless the prat was too close to begin with).

BMWs ABS if used correctly will stop the vehicle very fast and at close to the best an experienced driver could manage. It isn't a good idea to stamp on the brakes like that unless you *really* need to stop very quickly. The guy behind might not have the same braking capacity.

The only time I ever had to do it at high speed everything loose in the car ended up airborne and then at the bottom of the footwell.

It will stop pretty well if you don't trigger ABS too, but it is too common for drivers to be startled by ABS feedback on the brake pedal, lift their foot pressure and then wonder why they are not slowing down.

It isn't a good idea to be testing your ABS for the first time in an actual emergency - though that is what a lot of people do!

Regards, Martin Brown

He didn't quite keep the two-second distance (he should have ...) but was not tail-gating me. It was an experienced driver, the older sales guy type who spools off 50k miles or more a year. He said he practically stood on the brake and yet my rear bumper came closer and closer.

Worse, some folks think they can drive more aggressively now that they have ABS.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

which COMPENSATES for the failings of the auto transmission.... and the driver. ;-)

It's some kind of traction control. Not quite sure how it works, but supposed to prevent Joerg's hypothetical loss of control when you hit ice. ...Jim Thompson

If you mean the ESP that luxury cars have: That can cut throttle and automatically apply some braking. But that is still _not_ the same as pressing the clutch and achieving immediate coasting.

Ask a professional race car or rallye driver.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

it's an extension of ABS; the wheel speed sensors are monitored by a computer that looks for wheels not moving at the same rate as the others,and then applies individual brakes and/or reduces throttle to get everything back to nominal. It may also use accelerometers to detect side skids.

but once a wheel breaks loose on ice and puts your car into a spin or bad skew,there's really no recovery. you have to come to a stop.

Seems that's what _I_ drive ;-)

How 'bout we meet at Firebird/Bondurant, just a few miles south of me... maybe during the Spring SED event here at my place... and you can show me (and everyone else) how good a driver you are ?:-)

How 'bout I arrange a Formula-V race betwixt the two of us ?:-) Yousa gonna lose.... BIG :-) ...Jim Thompson

They won't race on a damp track, let alone ice.

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That's true, but it doesn't mean there are some things that can be done with a manual transmission that cannot be done with an automatic.

You betcha. My Vision and Intrepid both had "traction control" systems. They "worked" just like you say. On ice they were worthless and on snow would do unexpected things to *try* to maintain traction. A skid was preferable. The "off" button was in a handy place on the dash for good reason.

Sure I'd lose that, my Mits doesn't have the horses to race plus weighs almost two tons.

What do you think the Vikings have these rallye schools for?

The only advantage I've seen with a manual transmission is 'granny gear', where you top out at 5 MPH but can pull a house off its foundation. Or push someone out of your way when they are blocking the road on purpose. Contrary to the claims about brakes keeping a vehicle from moving, they can't stop something in that gear.

Engine braking is far superior with a manual as is rolling friction (or lack of it). It's much easier to control a car with a manual on ice than an auto. That's just a simple fact. I've had many cars of each variety and would take a manual in bad weather every time.

Sheeeesh! Formula-V is, natch, Volkswagen engines in a sleek body, provided by Bondurant.... I didn't want to embarrass you handling some real power ;-)

Although it'd be fun racing your MIT's against my Q45 ;-) ...Jim Thompson

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I know that racing on ovals is only in the dry, but pretty much every other racing class will run in the rain, and lots of rallies are with snow and ice, finland, sweden, monte carlo etc.

but i most top class racing the clutch is only used for starting and stopping

-Lasse

"Simple fact" is a phrase that only a leftist weenie would use ;-) ...Jim Thompson