Does anyone have any blank PAL devices handy (Now obsolete part numbers)

Hello! I am looking for some of the original MMI PAL devices. My favorite vendor shows only the PAL16R8 for example, (TIBPAL version) but I am looking for the part numbers that MMI contributed: PAL16C1 PAL16L2 PAL20L2 PAL20C1

We need these to update a series of designs that we made for a company some years previously. We actually offered to redo them into a PAL22V10 series and other examples of programmable logic. But they were insistent and pointed out the exclusive nature of the contract. Of course the lawyer who helped draft it has already retired but I didn't point out that one.

Of course programming them will be the problem, but I believe I can obtain a programmer from the vendor.

Of course if someone can steer me towards a firm who now has the rights to make them, that would be nice.

-- GCL gregg.drwho8 at gmail dot com

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gregg dot drwho8 atsign gmail
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Many programmers have modes which will program GALs directly from Jedec files originally compiled for the earlier devices, so no need to redo.. MMI became part of AMD, then Vantis, then Lattice, who still make GALs.

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Mike Harrison

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JW

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These are all first generation PAL parts. TTL one time fuse programmed. (circa 1978/1979). The second sources for that series were National and TI, (But I'm not sure they bothered with some of the less common parts). National got out of the business in the late '80s or early '90s

AMD took over MMI back in the early-mid 1980s. Sold the progammable logic lines to somebody later, I think.

Digging out some OLD databooks, the GAL16V8 and 20V8 can be programmed to be pin for pin replacments for the 16L2 and the 20L2. But, as I remember, the 16C1 parts needed one of the Philips PLA parts (PLS15x?) to do a pin for pin replacment, if you really needed more than 8 terms. Looks like a 22V10 could sub a 20C1 (and hope for no glitches), or use one of the PLS17x? series.

There's still the problem that newer parts might be too fast for an existing circuit board.

Mark Zenier snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Reply to
Mark Zenier

rly

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Hello! No argument here, Mark. One of the unique problems with that particular family of products, is that the individual they were delivered to is still there. He resembles Dilbert's boss in complete lack of understanding in how things work.

And to make matters worse the chap who did the original programming left his notes in nearly reasonable form, but not himself.

Which is why I decided to ask here. (Some of those lines were intended as humor.)

-- GCL gregg.drwho8 at gmail dot com

"This signature asks the question, "Is that a duck?"."

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gregg dot drwho8 atsign gmail

Not knowing the terms of your contract, I would have to assume that this design is over ten (twenty?/thirty??) years old...and as such you can not be held liable if the manufacturers of the original parts stopped producing them. I fail to see how you can be held liable unless you built the PALs yourself and promised delivery forever...MMI stopped making these in the mid 80s didn't they?

Re-read the contract, I am sure there is something in there that would allow for sustitution if read carefully.

Otherwise you need to hit the obsolete ICs folks and pay their prices, but be careful - in many cases they are selling PROGRAMMED parts as they don't all realize that many of these devices are write-once. As an example, some characters tried to sell me some 6530s (Rockwell) a few years ago and couldn't be convinced that their parts were useless as they were only available as customer special request coded.

John :-#)#

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    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
  John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
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Reply to
John Robertson

Hello! That happened last week while we were watching our other projects survive burn-in. (The contract reading.) After perusing the part about its age, we are now convinced that availability and the other parts of your statement aren't the issue. It's the ability of the customer to understand it. Since he barely understands anything electronic outside of his even older audio gear, we've decided to drop the issue. Next step will be to contact them and remind them of this fact.

And yes I do see your problems concerning the R6530 parts, these are PROM with I/O parts for the R6502 system. If they were programmed they are only useful for the system they are aimed at.

Which means we can close this one and go for other issues. And of course this is why I decided to ask here. (Some of those lines were intended as humor.)

-- GCL gregg.drwho8 at gmail dot com

"This signature asks the question, "Is that a duck?"."

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gregg dot drwho8 atsign gmail

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