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WANTED: Obsolete Component LED Rectangular Light Bars

I'm seeking some out-of-production discrete through-hole component LED ligh t bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want and can no t substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings, they wer e reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s or early 19

90s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at least two distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as surplus and sold them in retail packaging.

The first type have 2 LED emitters (a.k.a. chips, or dice) per unit. Their front face measures approximately 14 mm x 7 mm (9/16 x 1/4 inch) and they'r e about 12 mm (1/2 inch) tall excluding leads. They're made of lightly-tint ed clear epoxy, with a white-ish diffusion layer about 1-2 mm (~1/16 inch) thick at the front. The dice are about 7 mm (1/4 inch) apart, center-to-cen ter. These were once sold in retail packaging as Cal-Pak brand "Specialty L EDs", distributed by Cal West Supply, Inc. as their part numbers CP-59 (gre en), CP-58 (red) and CP-60 (yellow). I know that the Cal-Pak packages were stocked in MarVac Electronics stores in the Los Angeles, California vicinit y, but I do not know where else they may have been found nor how widely dis tributed they were. They were also offered online via Cal West's website, w ww.hallbar.com (defunct since early 2005). Additionally, I've been told tha t these LEDs have been found in "Lucky Bag" LED assortments sold primarily in Europe several years ago by Kemo Electronic. Kemo still sells such assor tments but this type is apparently no longer included. I do not know the or iginal manufacturers' part numbers nor which company(/ies) made them, thoug h I have read a post mentioning that they were Japanese.

The second type is of similar general appearance and construction, but they have 3 emitters per unit. Their front face measures about 18 mm x 5 mm (11 /16 inch x 3/16 inch) and they're about 9 mm (3/8 inch) tall excluding lead s. The chips are about 5 mm (3/16 inch) apart, center-to-center. These were also sold in Cal-Pak packaging, at least in green (CP-57) and red (CP-56) colors, but apparently not in yellow. There are similar LEDs to these in cu rrent production, but not exactly alike -- the chip-to-chip spacing is 6 mm now, and the dimensions a bit smaller at 16 mm length and 8 mm height. Som e time circa 2000, Cal West switched the LEDs in their Cal-Pak packaging to the current style without changing the part numbers. They also changed the 2-die style to a much smaller modern type of only 10 mm x 5 mm frontal dim ension, again without changing the part numbers.

Photos linked below show the original large 2-chip style (slightly retouche d image of actual LEDs in all 3 colors), the original 3-chip style (the gre en one is real and the others are simulated), and the Cal-Pak blister card packaging (partly simulated -- I don't know how many actually came on a car d; it would most likely have been in the range of 1 to 4).

At the time of posting this, I believe I have fairly well exhausted the onl ine possibilities presented by the popular search engines. I'm also running several daily eBay searches in English and German. So, unless you have acc ess to data that isn't generally available to the public or crawled by the search bots, or is in another language, please don't waste your time runnin g internet searches on my behalf. I'm after real-world info about a source or possible sources for these LEDs that probably /isn't/ already online.

I will consider your offers for any quantity. I am willing to pay internati onal shipping costs. I'm in southern California, U.S.A.

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Reply here or to a.j.franzman [ A T ] verizon [ D O T ] net. You can also v iew a duplicate of this posting at

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Reply to
Scotophor
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ght bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want and can not substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings, they w ere reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s or early

1990s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at least t wo distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as surplus a nd sold them in retail packaging.

Consider the possibility that they were discontinued because they were not very satisfactory. That is a LOT of epoxy in there. Stress from the encapsulant on the die, exacerbated by the heating of the die from the power dissipation, will promote the growth of defects, which raises the dark current, which accelerates the wearout of the die.

More concisely, you wouldn't want to locate a cache of these ancient parts, only to have to go through them like Kleenex.

The discussion on the other forum, where the fellow will overmold conventionally encapsulated LEDs in the desired form factor for you, sounds far more promising.

Reply to
spamtrap1888

light bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want and ca n not substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings, they were reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s or earl y 1990s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at least two distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as surplus and sold them in retail packaging.

I fail to understand how dark current is applicable here.

But if you think that's a lot of epoxy, look into the Kingbright L-885/6*DT and WP-885/6*DT, SunLED XEM*26D, and LEDtronics 23SL200*3 series, where "* " is a letter representing color code (either G, I, R or Y). These are 6-ch ip versions similar to the 3-chip version I'm looking for, but with the mod ern increased chip-to-chip spacing that I don't want. These were manufactur ed until very recently and are apparently still available from some industr ial suppliers. There are/were also similar but even larger 8-chip versions. This strongly suggests to me that your hypothesis is erroneous -- if the o nes I want were discontinued due to being unreliable simply because of thei r size, wouldn't even larger ones be at least as unreliable, and therefore be discontinued at the same time, or even earlier?

If I find sufficient quantity of the vintage parts and "go through them lik e Kleenex", I'll deal with that issue when the time comes. Let /me/ decide what I want.

As a last resort, I am prepared to undertake a similar encapsulating proces s to that of the fellow on the other forum, which will give me better resul ts for less cost with respect to his method. But I haven't yet given up on obtaining sufficient quantity of the originals.

Statistically speaking, I find it hard to believe that: upon identifying th e LEDs, (A) I already had two of them, unused, among my supplies, (B) I alr eady knew someone whom I believed might also have some, which I was able to verify in minutes by browsing his website. I later obtained more than a do zen of them from him, a mix of unused examples and pulls. (C) Within days I had found another person online who sent me three more, yet (D) In the 6+ months since, I have not been able to locate even a single additional examp le. What are the odds that I could locate and acquire the world's entire av ailable supply of these in such a short time, and that I already knew the p erson who had most of them? It boggles my mind to think that I found as man y as I did so quickly, yet there now don't appear to be any more to be had, anywhere. I believe there must be more out there; it's just going to take more time and effort to discover them.

Reply to
Scotophor

e:

D light bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want and can not substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings, th ey were reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s or ea rly 1990s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at lea st two distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as surpl us and sold them in retail packaging.

Dark current is (leakage) current that does not contribute to light output. It increases as the various crystal defects grow and propagate. LED failure is generally defined as the point where the light output has dropped by 50%. Selection of encapsulant can either accelerate or retard this effect.

the LEDs, (A) I already had two of them, unused, among my supplies, (B) I a lready knew someone whom I believed might also have some, which I was able to verify in minutes by browsing his website. I later obtained more than a dozen of them from him, a mix of unused examples and pulls. (C) Within days I had found another person online who sent me three more, yet (D) In the 6

  • months since, I have not been able to locate even a single additional exa mple. What are the odds that I could locate and acquire the world's entire available supply of these in such a short time, and that I already knew the person who had most of them? It boggles my mind to think that I found as m any as I did so quickly, yet there now don't appear to be any more to be ha d, anywhere. I believe there must be more out there; it's just going to tak e more time and effort to discover them.

Sooner or later, crap tends to get flushed.

Reply to
spamtrap1888

ote:

LED light bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want an d can not substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings, they were reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s or early 1990s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at l east two distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as sur plus and sold them in retail packaging.

e

Really? Then why do the online references seem to want to refer to dark cur rent only in terms of photodiodes and other light-detecting (rather than em itting) components? I.E., dark current is the leakage current which flows w hen a light detector is detecting no light. Sure, an LED /can/ be used as a light detector, but for typical usage, the standard definition of dark cur rent seems to be irrelevant. Can you cite references for your definition of "dark current"?

g the LEDs, (A) I already had two of them, unused, among my supplies, (B) I already knew someone whom I believed might also have some, which I was abl e to verify in minutes by browsing his website. I later obtained more than a dozen of them from him, a mix of unused examples and pulls. (C) Within da ys I had found another person online who sent me three more, yet (D) In the 6+ months since, I have not been able to locate even a single additional e xample. What are the odds that I could locate and acquire the world's entir e available supply of these in such a short time, and that I already knew t he person who had most of them? It boggles my mind to think that I found as many as I did so quickly, yet there now don't appear to be any more to be had, anywhere. I believe there must be more out there; it's just going to t ake more time and effort to discover them.

Are you making assumptions again, or do you have personal experience with t he LEDs I'm seeking? Also, I can direct you to several collectors and selle rs of some of the earliest commercially-made LEDs, which are IMO far more s uited to be labeled as "crap", based purely upon light output and longevity , than those of my current quest. If people collect that junk, then why not some that are brighter and more unusual?

Reply to
Scotophor

e:

t LED light bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want and can not substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings , they were reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s o r early 1990s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at least two distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as s urplus and sold them in retail packaging.

ere

ch

urrent only in terms of photodiodes and other light-detecting (rather than emitting) components? I.E., dark current is the leakage current which flows when a light detector is detecting no light. Sure, an LED /can/ be used as a light detector, but for typical usage, the standard definition of dark c urrent seems to be irrelevant. Can you cite references for your definition of "dark current"?

Fine. "Nonradiative." Only takes three times the keystrokes.

ing the LEDs, (A) I already had two of them, unused, among my supplies, (B) I already knew someone whom I believed might also have some, which I was a ble to verify in minutes by browsing his website. I later obtained more tha n a dozen of them from him, a mix of unused examples and pulls. (C) Within days I had found another person online who sent me three more, yet (D) In t he 6+ months since, I have not been able to locate even a single additional example. What are the odds that I could locate and acquire the world's ent ire available supply of these in such a short time, and that I already knew the person who had most of them? It boggles my mind to think that I found as many as I did so quickly, yet there now don't appear to be any more to b e had, anywhere. I believe there must be more out there; it's just going to take more time and effort to discover them.

the LEDs I'm seeking? Also, I can direct you to several collectors and sel lers of some of the earliest commercially-made LEDs, which are IMO far more suited to be labeled as "crap", based purely upon light output and longevi ty, than those of my current quest. If people collect that junk, then why n ot some that are brighter and more unusual?

Crap is stuff that appears only in blisterpacks, and then gets surplused. Not like having some, say, Monsanto LEDs.

Reply to
spamtrap1888

e:

t LED light bars for a project. There are two different styles that I want and can not substitute. According to a couple of archived internet postings , they were reportedly manufacturer-discontinued in either the late 1970s o r early 1990s, but remained somewhat available until around 2000 because at least two distributors had bought the manufacturers' remaining stocks as s urplus and sold them in retail packaging.

ere

ch

urrent only in terms of photodiodes and other light-detecting (rather than emitting) components? I.E., dark current is the leakage current which flows when a light detector is detecting no light. Sure, an LED /can/ be used as a light detector, but for typical usage, the standard definition of dark c urrent seems to be irrelevant. Can you cite references for your definition of "dark current"?

ing the LEDs, (A) I already had two of them, unused, among my supplies, (B) I already knew someone whom I believed might also have some, which I was a ble to verify in minutes by browsing his website. I later obtained more tha n a dozen of them from him, a mix of unused examples and pulls. (C) Within days I had found another person online who sent me three more, yet (D) In t he 6+ months since, I have not been able to locate even a single additional example. What are the odds that I could locate and acquire the world's ent ire available supply of these in such a short time, and that I already knew the person who had most of them? It boggles my mind to think that I found as many as I did so quickly, yet there now don't appear to be any more to b e had, anywhere. I believe there must be more out there; it's just going to take more time and effort to discover them.

Well, then give us a cost.

How much will you spend for what you want? Because, otherwise, yes, we're getting into possibly pointless speculation here as opposed to comparing an d contrasting the pros/cons - which is what I think you are preferring. In that regard, cost either can be an issue or not.

Whether this is business or a hobby for you, other people are trying to giv e you recommendations without anyone having specified an exact cost (above which you don't want to pay). If you are willing to devote endless dollars , then companies can make you an exact custom order. On the other hand, if you are straight off of the street looking for ideal scrap, then say so.

Reply to
mogulah

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 8:43:28 AM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrot e:

e getting into possibly pointless speculation here as opposed to comparing and contrasting the pros/cons - which is what I think you are preferring. In that regard, cost either can be an issue or not.

ive you recommendations without anyone having specified an exact cost (abov e which you don't want to pay). If you are willing to devote endless dolla rs, then companies can make you an exact custom order. On the other hand, if you are straight off of the street looking for ideal scrap, then say so.

Thanks, everyone, for the recommendations. Although I didn't ask for recomm endations, I have considered them all.

Cost is definitely an issue. This is a hobby project for me but I'm not the only person interested. For small quantities, say 20 pieces or fewer, I mi ght pay up to USD $5 each. The reason I didn't mention a price previously i s, once there is a price mentioned, it's very difficult to find someone who will sell for less than that... even if they previously would have sold th e same item for 50 cents each, without having a price reference available.

As the cost per piece goes down, I might buy larger quantities, up to sever al hundred pieces. This would enable me to offer either multiple copies of the project item, or the surplus LEDs beyond my own needs, to others in the hobby community. I believe that it will not be cost-effective to fund a ne w production run of custom manufactured LEDs for such small numbers. I doub t any manufacturer would bother for less than 10,000 pieces (or the equival ent cost thereof, for any lesser quantity).

I object to your word choice when you wrote, "if you are straight off of th e street looking for ideal scrap." That phrase is loaded with negative conn otations. I already wrote that I was looking for vintage parts. This should have been enough for you to infer that my quest is not for business purpos es.

Reply to
Scotophor

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