Windows Weirdness

What do you use? ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

For what it's worth: I've seen a fair number of drives for which the basic S.M.A.R.T. health readout came back immediately as "All is well" (i.e. the statistics didn't show a problem), but any of the sector scans would show a failure almost immediately.

I've seen other drives which had a serious internal failure (as confirmed after tests by the manufacturer) which passed all of the S.M.A.R.T. tests, including the surface scans. Turns out there was a type of write failure that the manufacturer had never considered, and didn't have feeding into any of the S.M.A.R.T. statistics.

S.M.A.R.T. is useful but it's a long way from being the ultimate drive-problem-detector.

--
Dave Platt                                    AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page:  http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

I'm using AVAST and Spybot (immunize).

I have a spread of machines and AVAST can be tailored at install so I might not install the email (and IM, P2P, outlook, etc) scanner(s) in a low power utility boxen that won't be using email and it still runs on even windows98 so I can use the same thing across the board.

Yea, me too.

Interesting.

That reminds me of one similar a long long time ago in a system we were doing with CMOS static ram. We had written a memory diagnostic so we decided at the training school to give a 'test' where, while they were at lunch, we removed a chip to let the students diagnose the problem.

Except, to our stunned amazement, it passed diagnostics with the chip gone!

Turned out the CMOS buss itself would hold the last write long enough to read it back.

We ended up revising the diagnostic so it wrote an inverse pattern to the next location and then went back to read the previous so all bits were 'reversed' and would have to be 'driven' by the chip in order to produce the correct results.

I agree.

Almost too embarrassed to tell what I think is happening.

I'm committed to partying until Monday, so I can't confirm until then :-)

Watching the sensor outputs via Everest, I observe heavy CPU use pushes CPU temperature up rapidly. At first I thought a bad fan, but fan RPM's are bouncing around a bit but always between 2000 RPM and

2200 RPM.

So I think I'll find a CPU heat-sink fins filled with dust and cat fur when I open up this box ;-)

What was happening _was_ Norton-induced... my idle time caused Norton to go into idle-time-scan mode, pushing CPU up to 100%, and some kind of thermal shutdown occurred.

Now that I've shut Norton down it's staying stable at a CPU temperature of about 45°C... just like outside right now :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

By accident really. Reading the temperature isn't what I had in mind.

Use Speedfan to monitor continuously. It can keep a selected measurement visible in the tray. For my system the most touchy value is the temperature in one of the drives, so I have that value always showing in the tray.

--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

The raw data sometimes tells you something.

BTW, the "value" is a score that goes down as the raw data gets worse. When the value is less than the "threshold" it gets a failing grade. The initial "value" is sometimes 100 or 200, but can be anything depending on which parameter and the model of the drive.

Some have pointed out that SMART doesn't detect every bad sector, but I wouldn't spend 6 hours waiting for chkdsk to test the drive unless I had a good reason to think it would find something.

Don't short it. :)

Watch batteries must often get shorted when being changed. I guess they have fairly high internal resistance.

You'll have to review and reset the BIOS settings of course.

--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

If the error is in a sector that hasn't been used it wouldn't cause a problem though. I know SMART isn't perfect, but chances are it will detect a bad sector, and chances are an OS crash wasn't caused by a bad sector.

--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

ure

Congrats on finding the hardware problem, Jim! Dust bunnies or dead motor?

I would not bet on NAV removing completely or safely, period. Removing NAV is a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation! When was the last time your NAV updated to current virus definitions from Symantec?? Have you been paying for updates for it all these years?

NAV is one of the old and more severe examples of why the ability to set up a "clean boot" is so very important. Too many HOOKS (think tentacles) implanted into the system.

Most people look at NAV as being a viral infection itself, only more difficult to completely remove than most virii.

WinFax? Through a 2400 Baud modem card? That's what they call some "old iron" there, Jim!

How old and how fast is the processor?

AVG or Avast are the most popular free virus scanners for individuals. Is this old heap a company machine or is it a personal machine?

I bet you don't want to install WinXP Pro from scratch and get all the updates. But after NAV got it's HOOKS in, it might not give AVG or Avast a fair chance to work.

Can't WinFax be found for free download on the net?

What version did you get to work with WinXP Pro?

WinFax From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search WinFax (also known as WinFax PRO) is a Windows-based software product designed to let computers equipped with fax-modems to communicate directly to stand-alone fax machines, or other similarly-equipped computers.

The product was created by developer Tony Davis at Delrina in 1990, and soon became the company's flagship product. Delrina started out by producing a set of electronic form products known as PerForm and later, FormFlow.

In 1990 Delrina devoted a relatively small space to WinFax at that year's COMDEX, where it easily garnered the most attention of any Delrina product being demonstrated at that show. This interest convinced Delrina of the commercial viability of the product. The rapid acceptance of this program in the market soon overtook that of the initial forms product in terms of revenues, and within a few years of its launch, WinFax would account for 80% of the company's revenues.

Several versions of the WinFax product were released over the next few years, initially for Windows 3.x and then a Windows 95-based version. Versions were also created for the Apple Macintosh ("Delrina Fax Pro") and DOS ("DosFax"). The Windows versions were also localized to major European and Asian languages. The company made further in-roads by establishing tie-ins with modem manufacturers such as U.S. Robotics and Supra that bundled simple versions of the product (called "WinFax LITE") that offered basic functionality. Those wanting more robust features were encouraged to upgrade to the "PRO" version, and were offered significant discounts over the standalone retail version. All of this rapidly established WinFax as the de facto fax software. By

1994 almost 100 companies were bundling versions of WinFax, including IBM, Compaq, AST Research, Gateway 2000, Intel and Hewlett-Packard[1].

WinFax PRO 3.0 was launched in November 1993 for Windows 3.x machines. This was followed by a version for Macintosh systems. This version of this product saw long life as a "non-PRO" version that was bundled with various fax modems by the end of its product cycle.

The release of WinFax PRO 4.0 in March 1994 brought together a number of key features and technologies. It introduced an improved OCR engine, introduced improvements aimed specifically at mobile fax users, better on-screen fax viewing capabilities and a focus on consistency and usability of the interface. It also included for the first time the ability to integrate directly with popular email products that were beginning to emerge in the marketplace, such as cc:Mail and Microsoft Mail. It was soon followed by a Networked version of the same product, which allowed a number of users to share a single fax modem on a networked system. This version of the product was also bundled with a grayscale scanner manufactured by Fujitsu, and sold as WinFax Scanner.

In 1994 the firm acquired AudioFile, a company that specialized in computer-based voice technology. The company created a product called TalkWorks, which enabled users to use certain fax/modems as a voice mail client. This program would later be bundled with subsequent versions of WinFax and the CommSuite 95 product.

The final Delrina-made version of WinFax was WinFax PRO 7.0, which shipped in November 1995. There was no intervening version 5.0 or 6.0, and the jump to version 7.0 was purely a marketing decision, based on keeping up with Microsoft's suite of Office products which were then at the same number. It was the first Delrina product designed to work with the Windows 95 operating system, and was a full 32-bit application, setting it apart from its competition at the time.

By the time WinFax PRO 7.0 was being sold from retail shelves, Delrina had been acquired by Symantec.

Delrina was sold to Symantec in July 1995, and the acquisition was finalized in November of 1995.

Symantec discontinued sales and support of WinFax PRO on June 30,

2006. Fee based technical support services are currently available from GetFaxing.com Support (Not affiliated with Symantec)

WinFax Version History

WinFax 1.0 =97 1990 (Windows 3.x) Delrina WinFax PRO 2.0 =97 1991 (Windows 3.x) DosFax =97 1992 (DOS) Delrina WinFax PRO 3.0 =97 November 1992 (Windows 3.x) Delrina WinFax PRO for Networks 3.0 - (Windows 3.x, Windows for Workgroups 3.1x) Delrina Fax PRO =96 1993 (Macintosh) Delrina WinFax PRO 4.0 =97 March 1994 (Windows 3.x, later revisions supported Windows 95) Delrina WinFax PRO for Networks 4.0 - (Windows 3.x, Windows for Workgroups 3.1x) Delrina WinFax PRO for Networks 4.1 - (Windows 3.x, Windows for Workgroups 3.1x, Windows 95) Delrina WinFax Scanner =97 1994 (Windows 95) Delrina WinFax PRO 7.0 =97 November 1995 (Windows 95) Delrina WinFax PRO for Networks 5.0 Server - (Windows 3.x, Windows for Workgroups 3.1x, Windows 95) WinFax PRO 7.5 (bundled with TalkWorks) =97 October 1996 (Windows 95) WinFax PRO 8.0 (bundled with TalkWorks PRO) =97 March 1997 (Windows 95, Windows NT) TalkWorks PRO 2.0 =97 August 1998 (Windows 95, Windows NT) WinFax PRO 9.0 =97 August 1998 (Windows 9x, Windows NT/2000/XP) TalkWorks PRO 3.0 =97 August 1999 (Windows 9x, Windows NT/2000/XP) WinFax PRO 10.0 =97 February 2000 (Windows 9x, Windows NT/2000/XP) WinFax PRO 10.01 =97 January 2001 (Windows 9x, Windows Me, Windows NT/

2000/XP) WinFax PRO 10.02 =97 August 2001 (Windows 9x, Windows Me, Windows NT/ 2000/XP) WinFax PRO 10.03 =97 November 2002 (Windows 9x, Windows Me, Windows NT/ 2000/XP) WinFax PRO 10.04 =97 January 2005 (update patch only from version 10.03) [edit] External links

WinFax PRO Support forums (Not affiliated with Symantec) WinFax PRO Technical Support site (Not affiliated with Symantec)

Be careful not to break the battery holder. I replace a lot of bad CR2032 coin cells in computers. Most holders have a clip at one spot to hold the coin cell. You can test it with yor voltmeter. If it is anything below 3 volts, replace it. Release the catch, and the coin cell will pop out of most holders. Don't get fingerprints across the insualtor, to assure maximum life of the cell.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Have you ever used Revo Uninstaller? It will uninstall a program, then remove the crap the uninstall files for the deleted program miss. Its handy for cleaning out botched installs, as well.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Unstable power can cause just about any symptom or fault.

John Ferrell W8CCW

I ran chkdsk overnight before I downloaded a copy of Everest. It was clean also.

From the temperature readings I'm pretty sure it's crud... my machines sit just inches off a carpeted floor, under my desk... plus the cat loves the warmth in back :-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

Crud and cat hair in the heat sink.

Yes :-(

I found a Symantec-specific uninstaller and cleaned NAV out.

Naaaah! 14,400, used now just outbound. Inbound is via MyFax

AMD Athlon 64, 2400MHz (Alias? San Diego S939)

Bought IIRC ~2000 :-)

WinFax 10

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

Of course an unused sector wouldn't contain data, or anything else. That's pretty much the definition of unused.

A full scan is for completeness because the last thing you need is to fix one problem only to have another one crop up when unused, possibly bad, sectors do get used.

Possibly but unstable power generally causes more problems that just an idle shutdown, which is why I said "inconsistent" and not "impossible."

On the other hand, his description of "idle" turned out to not really be processor idle because Norton was deciding to run.

Yep, I was "idle", noticed the temperature climb, called up Task Manager, there was NAV at 100%, problem solved :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

That's the most likely diagnosis yet. It's entirely plausible and explains just about everything, except for why the symptom seemed to go away when you reset the power settings but that could be explained as coincidence with Norton's scheduling of when it needed to run.

We do tend to forget about the lowly heatsinks and fans but they can and do get clogged, especially with pets around. I've opened systems up to find the interior looking like the insides of a vacuum cleaner bag.

Useful utilities for monitoring temperatures and fan speeds are speedfan and motherboard monitor.

Yep. Just a coincidence to confuse things ;-)

One of these days I want to redo my office with wood flooring... that helps quite a bit.

Of course my oldest son chides me to have rack-mounted PC's inside an filtered air containment, as he does ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.