PSpice SCHEMATICS Users Take Note!

Actually, I quite like Analog Artist's schematic capture. I don't have any major complaints after many solid years using it. It even has a great router for wiring up. I think this done to your usual..er.. age... bit... you know the one about old dogs and tricks...

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

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Kevin Aylward
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How much? :-)

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Reply to
Kevin Aylward

Yes.

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Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs

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Reply to
Boris Mohar

I agree. I only use the 9.1 student 'demo' version, but find Schematics extremely easy to place components and connect them to do a quick sim. Also I find it very nice to be able to simply create for example a C:\\Projects\\PSpice\\Job2 folder and copy the .sch from another job, double click the .sch, make the changes and it's done.

I've used Capture for at least 4 years in the past for PCB circuit designs, but would rather use a different Spice program if the only PSpice option is Capture! I thought I saw the standard library parts have very different settings whether using PSpice Schematics or Capture?

p.s. is there an 'idiots guide' to using new subcircuits in Schematics? e.g. if I want to use a specific op-amp subcircuit 'macromodel' that's not in the standard libraries. (I'm using PSpice a little more recently, and am probably one step away from using downloaded subcircuits, but thought I'd ask while I'm here :-)

Thanks, Paul T

Reply to
Paul Taylor

Thanks a lot Jim, I'll spend some time tomorrow playing with libraries :-)

Paul

Reply to
Paul Taylor

Have you actually tried SS?

I agree that Schematics is not bad, certainly compared to say EWB, CM, or LTSpice, but, imo, its a no contest. SuperSpice is way ahead in ease of use.

But why?

The demo of SS actually allows for quite a large circuit. Like, 750 components if you use the hierarchy feature.

Again, with SS this sort of thing is all drag and drop. Its trivial to add a .subckt and connect them to existing symbols. e.g.

1) Drag a file with models in it to the SS main window. 2) Place an opamp symbol on the schematic. 3) double click on it, use the model tab and use the "select model" button. The added file models will show up in a list box to select from.

There is also an auto symbol generator.

For adding standard devices like transistors, you don't need to do anything but drag and drop. The new models will show up in the docked browser on the left and will automatically be connected to the correct symbol.

Jim can huff and puff all he likes about how great PSpice is, but truly, the SS GUI is the best in the known 3 universes.

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Reply to
Kevin Aylward

Just downloaded the demo, and it is quite nice - except for when you are deleting bits, which involves too much mouse work. My main gripe, though, is that it puts dots in the wrong places. I only want to see them at wire junctions, not the ends of components. Just leave a bare wire end - I'm sure we can work out where to join to. Also, when editing a value, I would like to be able to double click the value, not the component.

d Pearce Consulting

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Reply to
Don Pearce

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:37:09 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

That's a horrible understatement. Even worse, every tool in their suite was written by someone like Kevin, who knew exactly what a user interface should be like, and that everyone else had it wrong. Thus, in some dialog boxes, the escape key means "cancel," and in others it does nothing. In some, buttons and tabs are selected with the left mouse button, and in others it's the middle mouse button. They use X, of course, which has no way to indicate which windows are linked to which application, so if you have two copies of AA (Analog Artist) running, you'll eventually have multiple identical windows open, some of which are related to what you're doing, and some of which aren't. The editor retains state, but provides no indication of it - a UI disaster. Are you in delete mode? Cadence users hit the escape key alot, just to make sure they aren't - there's no other way to tell. By default, text is displayed next to devices, but if it ever gets moved, or if devices are placed near each other, there's no way to tell which device the text is associated with. Even when the text is selected and moved, there's no rubber-band line to indicate which device it's associated with unless you move the entire device. Wires can't be run through devices, so in a long string of current sources, where the bias line connecting the gates/bases should run through the center of all the devices, the bias line instead has to be routed above or below the device, and each gate/base has to be individually connected. I won't even get started on the automatic connection tool, except to say that the moron who wrote it was clearly a fan of Jackson Pollock.

There is no such thing as a pretty Cadence schematic.

The last time I used AA was three years ago, and they still couldn't even netlist (yes, they can produce a binary netlist that can be used by any simulator that's integrated into their "framework," but they can't produce a simple text netlist. Fortunately, I worked for a big-huge company that could afford to write their own. Even so, it's slower than molasses in January.

Not that AA adherents (there are always some, aren't there?) have anything to worry about. I'm good friends with the local Cadence rep, and he tells me every time I see him that the user interface on Analog Artist is not ever going to change. The demand for schematic entry software is small, and the number of users is nowhere close to the number of users of their digital tools. There hasn't been any staff devoted to AA tools or the mucked-up user interface for years, and there are no plans to add any soon.

-- Mike --

Reply to
Mike

[snip]

I just love receiving Cadence schematics from clients with the device sizing information written on top of the symbol so you can't read most of them :-(

I think the netlist incompatibility is purposely done to prevent cross-tool usage.

And my clients can't (or won't figure out how) to import MY netlist into their system.

It seems to me that there's still a lot of analog work going on.

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

In what way?

You can do a mouse area, of cntl click on individul bits, and then the delete button.

Ahmmm...

I absolutly *love* the dots on component junctions/pins. Its something I find *very* irritating in those that dont have it. I like to know that the component is definitely being connected to a wire. I suppose I could as an option to defete this...

You can for the majority of labels, e.g RCL values. The only ones you can't are for the sources. This is simply because I got lazy. Sources need a bit more processing.

Note that you don't have to click select anything, once the mouse is over it you can delete or "q" to bring up properties etc.

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

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Kevin Aylward

I disagree - the schematic should look as much like a standard one as possible. If you want to make certain that wires are joined, leave disconnected tails colored red - set them to the normal colour only if they are connected both ends. That way you have no uncertainty, and no unsightly (non-standard) blobs.

Fair enough.

I find combinations of mouse and keyboard clumsy. How about a delete tool on the toolbar, which you can select and just click the schematic as much as you like.

Pearce Consulting

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Reply to
Don Pearce

Apparantly so.

Not at all. I disagree. The "standard" you allude to, isn't. We all have our own opinions, and this is one I feel quite strongly about. My way is

*the* best way to do it. Indeed, I stole the idea from Analog Artist. I never head anyone complain about junction dots, and I have met many 40 hour a week i.c. designers using AA. On the other hand, I have had complaints on not having dots. Your the first to actually complain.

This is *your* opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. I don't consider them unsightly in the slightest. They give solid comfort. This is more like an issue because its not what you are used to, not because it isn't useful.

I don't. Again, I pinched this "q" bit from Analog Artist. Most like it. I think its wonderfull. However, you can still use the right button context menu to delete if you want to keep things single handed (or main edit menu).

There is a toolbar button for cut (which does delete), but why there isn't a specific delete as well is something I just noticed. I think there was one at some time. I'll add it back in. I agree that the repeat delete can be useful although I have obviously not missed it, otherwise I would have added it in prior.

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

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Kevin Aylward

Can you point me to a few published schematics that use dots this way? I can certainly locate those that use them purely for wire junctions by the cartload.

d Pearce Consulting

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Reply to
Don Pearce

That's not really relevant. We're talking simulation schematics here, not paper drawings. The requirements are not the same. The dots a great visual aid when seperating the pins from wires in order to probe current or voltage. Once you get used to it, you never whant to go back, imo, to a dumb schematic. Again, 10,000's use cadence analog artist that has this feature, so this *is* an "industry standard" for simulation tools, i.e. Cadence is the biggest cad supplier.

In SS you probe pins (current) wires (voltage) device symbol (power). Dots make this much easier to see.

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Reply to
Kevin Aylward

I can see we won't agree. Let's leave it there.

d Pearce Consulting

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Reply to
Don Pearce

Complete nonsense.

Stick to writing spice engines mike, cos you know f'all else.

Thus,

I agree. This is a major irritant. Its one part of AA that I hated. Nevertheless, a few bugs aint enough to trash the system. Nothings perfect, and the GUI in LTSpice is far from it. It don't get a look in compared to AA.

Minor, inconsequential irritant. Its far more annoying not being able to simple drag a component with the mouse, a major fault that LTSpice is inflicted with.

Dah... that's a pedestrian way anyway. In SS, if you click on a label, the device its attached to changes colour. So, I certainly don't copy all the bad aspects of other packages.

For example, the AA method of locking onto the waveform to display data is brilliant, so I copied that from day one. Having to hold the mouse down and piss about with cursors is so outdated its unreal, as does LTSpice.

Of course they can.

Nonsense. You can turn auto rout off and manualy wire it.

Well, don't. Its great. Sure on a few occasions it can be a bit dubious, but by far its excellent most of the time. It weaves in and out around components like magic. There difference here is that you are a software engineer, not someone who does 40 hours a week designing circuits, so your opinion on this means diddle squat. Its that simple.

Nonsense.

Nonsense. Your simple clueless. Hint: I have spent many a time editing the text netlist, e.g. adding in .measure statements and rerun statements.

{snip drivel}

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

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SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Reply to
Kevin Aylward

Are you saying what I think? That regardless which X tools/libraries you're using (Qt or whatever,) there's no way to store a pointer to the controller (or whatever class you use to keep track of state) in the window. IOW, there's no equivalent to SetWindowLong(hwnd, ...) / GetWindowLong(hwnd, ...) which I use to store a pointer to a controller class which implements the functions used to process winders messages and keep track of what's going on in that specific window.

If that's what you mean, I may be able to find a workaround for that in the wxWidgets cross platform UI framework. Dunno. For some reason, I haven't used that technique since I moved from winders API GUIs to wxWidgets. Now that you've got me on alert, I'm waiting for the bottom to drop out.

Maybe you're talking about something higher up. At the application level. Something isn't right. With proper OOP, there should be no problems.

--
Best Regards,
Mike
Reply to
Active8

You mean you've gotten around to figuring out ActiveX and friends? I saw something the other day in the winsock FAQ, IIRC, that implied that the solution to your commo prob might be shared memory. There was another suggestion, but I can't remember it. I'd expect any type of COM to be slower than shared memory.

--
Best Regards,
Mike
Reply to
Active8

I don't have a prob with the dots as far as indication of connectivity is concerned, but I'd certainly want to turn them off to print a schematic. I wouldn't want to have to use a separate CAD program just to print a schem.

I also don't have a prob with the red lead indicating "not connected", changing to blue or wire/component color when connected. I can always move the component around to see if it's connected.

Sometimes in Capture, I've found that the part was connected wrong - have to cut/paste or delete it and clean up a bunch of wire segments. IOW segments end up under the part and sometimes moving the part will cause an unconnected lead to connect to something hidden under it. You have to watch out for that alert triangle that indicates something's about to connect.

Since I'm talking about printing schems, something else about SS annoys me, whether on screen or on paper. It's that limey looking transistor symbol with the collector and emitter leads forming a "V" at the base instead of being separated - the way I'm used to seeing it. If there are other graphics in SS that annoy me, I've forgotten them.

Overall, I could live with SS if I had to. That LTSpice GUI is the pits to get used to, which sucks because LT is a very useful CAD for these group discussions.

And Kevin *has* conceeded to some of your points, thus upholding his claim of excellent customer service.

--
Best Regards,
Mike
Reply to
Active8

That's true, but in SS, if components are joined end-to-end without intervening wire, there is no rubber banding. Neither does the attached component drag with the one you are moving - they simply slide apart. I am not going to say this is a bug, and I'm not sure I would do it any other way.

I think that is a result of the coarse grid - the v style of depiction isn't normal in Limeyworld either.

Never tried LTSpice, but I have tried Capture and despite promising myself to learn it and like it, I returned very gratefully to PSched.

This is very true.

d Pearce Consulting

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Reply to
Don Pearce

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