Protel DXP2004

one

strange

The interface is different that I expected (I'm not a PCB designer) and took a bit of getting used to.

But it works just fine. I've places and routes a 4 layer 10x14" with

1300 placements and board is up and running.

I also have done 2 small 3x5 " 2 sided boards and both worked first pass.

My 2 cents george

so who is the biggest fool... the one who sells the software.. or the one who brought it ?

And that is the secret of EDA. Its a small market so if you make it too much like other companies... then users can swap :-)

I have been working with Protel for many years.. 15 or more... and each time they do a major release it has more bugs than windows 2. That being said, service packs come out thick and fast.. some add new features, others fix 'issues' as there are no bugs anymore :-) So if you find it buggy.. make sure you install the current service pack. Its very important.

Simon

Simon, C'mon guy, you are not being completely honest. Current DXP2004 SP2 has a reasonable number of bugs or issues. Anybody only has to monitor the DXP support listserver for a couple of days to see that. The bright point is that Altium personnel are participating on the listserver and they seem to be seriously addressing these bugs and issues when compared to the old days. There was a time when you would wonder if they were even trying to support the product or just tell you that there weren't any bugs, it was all your own install and personal issues.

-- Sincerely, Brad Velander

make it too

and each time

add new

service pack.

Op Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:30:43 +1200 schreef Simon Peacock:

What is you opinion on Protel 99SE SP6? Some say that it was quite stable and most bugs fixed on the release of SP6. What was/is your experience in this regard?

Franklin

Op Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:24:49 +1200 schreef Simon Peacock:

Thanks for your comments/hints/tips/advice.

Regards,

Franklin

I do follow the groups.. but I am also on the DXP beta list.. There is about a service pack a month there. Our aim is to track down and identify bugs so you don't have too. To really see support that's where you need to be.. but the techs in the group are rather busy at the moment with preparing for SP3 and after that probably for SP4 There is also a hot fix list Protel is setting up.. if you have a serious issue that can be reproduced, you can get a hot fix for it there.

And yes DXP is buggy.. but less so then earlier releases of DXP. Some of the bugs are even documentation issues... on that side they have fallen well short of 2.8 & 98. But for all its faults.. it is quite usable. Except Situs buts that's a different story. I am also suspect of Nextar.. its too early to consider them serious rivals for Mentor... but one day.. maybe .. at least you don't fork out 25% more each year for 'bug fixes' its about

30k a year at my current job... and its been a year since Modelsim and HDL designer worked together.. and there's still no official fix... so I'll take free maybe fixes against expensive non-fixes anyday.

The support list server is one of the best features.. there are some very knowledgeable people on the list who don't work for Altium.

I would have to say its still the preferred CAD package at work. Its only because I'm on the beta that I use DXP at home.

Protel has an annoying habit of releasing the code when its near enough... Any company used to dealing with them probably buys the upgrade and sticks it on the shelf for several service packs. you get the upgrade fairly cheap that way. I had Protel 99 that way.. didn't even use it.. and only started with 99SE at SP5. I don't see my current company upgrading to DXP until there are a few more service packs. and the one DXP license the we have was brought because it came with 99SE :-)

Without SP6 I wouldn't touch 99SE ... but its rock solid (mostly) I've never used the auto-router and only done basic simulation. I have run a trace simulation on the PCB and then checked the calculated capacitance against the RF test gear at work and the numbers came out close enough.

99SE is really a CAD package.. its not a text editor, its not a spread sheet, auto-routing and simulation aren't its strong points and auto-place is a non-starter. I've also heard bad things about the libraries but all libraries I've ever used are hand built and every component is checked by two people.. so I've never used any of Protels libraries... Oh.. and hidden pins in a schematic.. never used them.. they are more of a hindrance than a solution. SCH and PCB will work until the cows come home.. with any kind on board... power supplies, 22 Gig RF you name it.. its possible sometimes you are drawing with fills and not traces... but it works a treat.

There are a few bugs in the ERC from 99SE. Nothing serious, It wasn't until I had DXP and ran a clean 99SE schematic to find a dozen errors with DXP that I checked the settings.. same settings in both yielded different number of errors. And DXP got it right! these aren't major errors.. just inputs connected to outputs etc. There are also some things in 99SE that will always make it crash.. I can't remember exactly.. no point in asking for a fix any more... just avoid it if it happens :-)

If you can find it, the developers kit allows you to write Delphi DLL's... I've one written to generate a BoM and have never touched the default BoM in the 8 years since.

I have also always used the DDB for better or worse I have found that Protel defaults cause the least grief..

It is also very graphics card sensitive... ATI = instant death. Something to do with drivers (probably). Matrox Millennium or G400 were the card of choice. 1/2 gig of ram and the best processor you can afford are really minimum.

The 3D is a toy but there are third party interfaces to solidworks.

DXP seems to want 1 gig RAM and rummers from Altium are that it will run

40 - 80% faster on a 64bit Athlon. But it is 32 bit code and can't use a dual processor (not that a dual processor wouldn't be useful)

One of the best part of Protel 99SE is that the older licenses are transferable. DXP or the 99SE licenses can't be sold unless the whole company is sold.

so that's the one page summery. I evaluated all CAD tools under $20,000 back in '97 ish and I thought it was the best then. My opinion hasn't changed much... but I haven't been playing with the others lately.

Simon

time

pack.

Franklin, I concur with Simon's comments re P99SE SP6. Still running it myself at work, maybe we will upgrade to DXP in a year or two.

-- Sincerely, Brad Velander

Well I would have to say I'm growing fond of DXP.. the search/replace is bloated now... but theres talk about putting back the simple search engine of 99SE... the new features and the smart pdf is way cool ... the split plane handling is better, the pad stacks are better and version control is exactly what's needed... so I won't be changing back to 99SE at home in a hurry. Especially if I start StartLite Design back up again

Simon

Simon, From the bit I have played with thus far, I am concerned about all of these pop-up windows interfering with the actual visible work area. Haven't gotten that far into it, I have only converted and integrated our libraries so that I could start playing, then the flood gates opened and I am swamped with real work. What a chore the library conversion was, our libraries had

1300 errors or warnings to sort out. A lot of garbage issues from past employees that weren't too concerned with integral libraries and library management. But it was a good exercise to get me more familiar with our library details and now I feel a little more reassured about the integrity of the libraries I inherited last year.

Padstacks? What padstacks? P99SE didn't have padstacks, at least not what I think of as padstacks (PADs) and hate with a passion. or do you just mean better control and features similar to the P99SE pads. Version control is nothing that interests us, we have our own very well documented and controlled development process and systems. Gotta be for avionics product approvals, completely traceable. We have a development software management system but it is not a version control product as far as I know (maybe it is and we just don't use it in the same fashion as the other popular vc packages). I don't think that it plays nicely with any other programs.

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"Simon Peacock"  wrote in message
news:4267738c$2@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
> Well I would have to say I\'m growing fond of DXP.. the
search/replace is
> bloated now... but theres talk about putting back the simple
search engine
> of 99SE... the new features and the smart pdf is way cool ...
the split
> plane handling is better, the pad stacks are better and version
control is
> exactly what\'s needed... so I won\'t be changing back to 99SE at
home in a
> hurry.  Especially if I start StartLite Design back up again
>
> Simon

I've dragged all the pop up windows to the side of the screen where they simply shrink into the edge when not used. I've noticed someone else going for a 23" wide screen for Protel.. I can only guess why :-)

I have already warned my work that theres about a month of library work going from 99SE to DXP. There is just so much more info in the current libraries. The thought has been we will convert whats needed, and create/convert new parts as required.

Well 99SE had padstacks.. top, bottom and everything else. DXP has top, bottom and individual internal layers.

We have standardised on VSS for FPGA .... mainly because it didn't directly support CVS at first, and CVS for software at work but they are looking at moving it all to CVS. Protel is just zipped, write-protected and archived .... so very manual .. I prefer automated systems that are easily reproducable ... We also have bug tracking.

I have 2 seats of 99SE. One at "work", the other at "home". It is quite reliable. There are a few quirks in some of the viewing stuff, the PLD stuff is very rough, but the schematic--PCB part is rock solid. There are a couple of known ways to slip defects past the design rule checks (like vias right between split power planes) but you just about have to try to do something that will mess it up. Following just a couple of procedures will get perfect boards every time. The parts libraries are not real good or consistent, and everybody recommends you build your own parts and footprint libraries to make sure the hole sizes are what you want, etc.

I've been using 99SE pretty much since it came out, and it is really quite good. Also, you don't find that you've fogotten how to use it after just a weekend off! Some other packages are so darn complex and non-intuitive that you can't remember how to use it after just a couple of days.

Jon