PCB Software

Re the freepcb software. Haven't tried it, but this kinda homegrown "I was dissatisfied with the low-cost products on the market and decided to write my own - and here it is free" is great if you're a member of the beard and sandals brigade who like playing with these raw, unsupported, buggy, pieces of software developed by one man bands in there dens to amuse themselves in their retirements.

This is AutoTRAX revisited, which after 3 years still at alpha level..... (the new AutoTRAX, NOT the old Protel product).

In short, probably OK if you want to while away the hours playing with a hobbyist's toolset. Useless if you're trying to design a real product that's gotta go out the door on time......

Prescott

Reply to
Don Prescott
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You sound opinionated ;-)

I don't know about freepcb, but PCB (of gEDA) is developed by three of us who USE it. Dan, at least, uses it for his job, and I use it for my own stuff (I used to design PC motherboards, now I work on gcc). It's well supported by us, not very buggy (we're fixing them as fast as we can ;), and we know it can do complex boards because we've done them.

And my wife won't let me grow a beard anyway.

Reply to
DJ Delorie
[snip]

Thanks for all your work. I am starting to use PCB now, and have used djgpp in the past.

--Mac

Reply to
Mac

Hmm...I guess I have to side with the "beard and sandals brigade", though I was entertained by the pre-emptive cheap shot :) I think the Linux analogy was spot-on, Stuart.

What's funny about this is, my application is a commercial application

- not a hobby. I like the open source tool route because if a company stops supporting their tool, I can keep working with it if I have the source.

We have built several boards already with an open source EDA tool chain. I have no complaints, since as Stuart points out, I was able to identify any shortcomings in the ascii files before they showed up on the boards. This is more than I can say for the last boards we built with the "big guns of EDA" tool flows. The source of the errors was the same - human error - but the ability to locate and correct them was very, very different.

Chris

Reply to
info

Hmm...I guess I have to side with the "beard and sandals brigade", though I was entertained by the pre-emptive cheap shot :) I think the Linux analogy was spot-on, Stuart.

What's funny about this is, my application is a commercial application

- not a hobby. I like the open source tool route because if a company stops supporting their tool, I can keep working with it if I have the source.

We have built several boards already with an open source EDA tool chain. I have no complaints, since as Stuart points out, I was able to identify any shortcomings in the ascii files before they showed up on the boards. This is more than I can say for the last boards we built with the "big guns of EDA" tool flows. The source of the errors was the same - human error - but the ability to locate and correct them was very, very different.

Chris

Reply to
info

Grr...google groups...

Reply to
info

[snip]

Chris, You have a posting problem... two copies of this post... 7 seconds apart.

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

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| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Reply to
Jim Thompson

Don Prescott wrote: : Re the freepcb software. Haven't tried it, but this kinda homegrown : "I was dissatisfied with the low-cost products on the market and : decided to write my own - and here it is free" is great if you're a : member of the beard and sandals brigade who like playing with these : raw, unsupported, buggy, pieces of software developed by one man bands : in there dens to amuse themselves in their retirements.

*Chortle*

That's what folks said about Linux about five years ago. Those that said it look like backward-looking trogledytes now.

The advantages of free/open-source tools are these:

  • Full versions usually downloadable for free. No cripple or nagware. Just download and start designing.

  • Documented ASCII file formats. The vendor isn't trying to lock you in to his tool set by sticking you with a proprietary binary format. (Express PCB is a particularly nasty example of this, but Protel & Orcad do it too). Therefore, you have complete control over your design. If a component becomes displaced waaaay off screen, you can open up your design with a text editor, find the component, and fix the problem.

  • Protection for legacy designs. At work I have inherited a CadStar design done back in the middle 1990s. Unfortunately, the CadStar install media I have is old & worn out, and doesn't work with Windows XP wayway. I have no budget to spend thousands of $$$ to buy a modern seat of CadStar just to open up one stinking PCB. How do I modify/update/fix a design captured in an obsolete & unsupported tool? Basically, I'm screwed. Thanks, Zuken! Thanks, Microsoft!

With free/open-source EDA tools, legacy support is typically built into the tool. The developers don't have the motivation to keep users on the upgrade-for-cash treadmill, so they don't play these kinds of games. Also, if the tool has changed too much to read an old design, you can find an old version of the tool, freely download it, and then edit your old design happily.

  • You get the code. Although most people don't want to hack, there are many designers out there who know enough about software developement that they feel comfortable about making customizations and improvements to the open-source codebase. They do this because it gives them a design advantage -- they can automate or control tasks which the rest of use have to carfully click through repeatedly. I communicate with several of them, and more are joining the gEDA project regularly. You just can't do this with closed-source, proprietary software.

  • Finally, many projects are quite mature & very usable for low and mid-level designs. The gEDA stuff -- schematic capture & netlisting

-- is simply great! The various open-source spices (ngspice, tclspice) are very usable, albeit CLI driven. Icarus Verilog is mature, and commonly used in industry. And PCB, well, its user interface takes some getting used to, but it does the job, and I correspond with folks who have done 8 layer boards & beyond with it.

[. . . snip . . .]

: In short, probably OK if you want to while away the hours playing with : a hobbyist's toolset. Useless if you're trying to design a real : product that's gotta go out the door on time......

People are using this stuff in industry. Open your eyes and look around. You'll see more of it as time goes on.

Stuart

: Prescott

Reply to
Stuart Brorson

The first symbol I tried to use in the EAGLE demo had the wrong spacing. That's when I switched to PCB, because I knew I could make my own footprints accurately.

Reply to
DJ Delorie

IMHO, the problem of gEDA is that it doesn't have a very extensive and

*checked for accuracy* (even if some faults escape, EAGLE has let some escape in libraries) components library (like EAGLE, for instance, has) []s
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Reply to
Chaos Master

I'd much rather have a small set of good examples and a good library editing capability than a huge library.

Even if I can find something that looks right, I have to carefully check it. Often my view of "good" is slightly different from the guy who did that part for the library.

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Reply to
Hal Murray

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