NLV Solar AG have commissioned Koenigsegg to build a car called the "Quant" which has a thin-film solar-cell coating
It's even at the 2009 Geneva Salon motor show
IF it can be produced in production quantities at a reasonable cost, and IF NLV Solar licences the technologies involved to other major manufacturers, and IF it works as claimed, we could soon see a major shift in the way vehicles are powered.
dmm
Plus the wider cost of millions of tons of electrochemical waste, once the batteries start to wear out across the globe.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:54:32 +1000, dmm put finger to keyboard and composed:
which has a thin-film solar-cell coating
Solar licences the technologies involved
major shift in the way vehicles are powered.
Here are some snippets from the above articles:
====================================================================== The FAES (Flow Accumulator Energy Storage) only weigh around 450 kg and contain no hazardous material or heavy metals.
The advances in electric power generation and storage ... will enable the NLV Quant to charge the FAES to full capacity in 20 minutes.
Power: 512 bhp Torque: 715 nm 0 - 100 km/h: 5.2 seconds Top speed: 275 km/h Curb weight: 1780 kg
FAES is an electrochemical energy storage system. The gravimetric energy density is over 170 Wh/kg, the volumetric energy density at least 600 Wh/l. A particular feature is the voltage per individual cell of 4 V; the cells are connected in series. The FAES technology allows high-voltage charging to full capacity in 15?20 minutes and gives the vehicle a range of 500 km. The additional power input from the invisible, thin-film photovoltaic coating that covers the body of the car further increases the range potential. The FAES has no memory effect. ======================================================================
Based on the above information, the total energy stored in the FAES is ...
450 kg x 170 Wh/kg = 76.5 kWhIf you were to recharge this storage system in 20 minutes from dead flat, then the required power input would be ...
76.5 x 3 = 230 kWA 230 VAC household supply would need to deliver 1000 amps which is clearly impossible.
However, the above articles did mention that a high voltage supply would be required, but no details were given.
100A @ 2.3kV or 10A @ 23kV ???The mind boggles.
- Franc Zabkar
-- Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:20 +0800, "Bruce Varley" put finger to keyboard and composed:
If the batteries are costing $30K, then wouldn't that be sufficient incentive to recycle their materials?
- Franc Zabkar
-- Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 06:04:17 +1000, Franc Zabkar put finger to keyboard and composed:
ISTR that automotive lead-acid batteries have capacities of around
40Ah to 80Ah.This equates to 12 x 80 = 960Wh.
The FAES would then be equivalent in capacity to 80 lead-acid batteries.
- Franc Zabkar
-- Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.
If they can be and it is economical. AFAIUI we are not talking lead acid batteries, but some form of new and exotic battery.
The bottom line is that the world is going to continue to be reliant on oil for many years to come, simply as there are too many applications for it that cant be readily replaced. The aviation industry, the shipping industry and even the trucking industry, as well as the worlds military forces are reliant on oil and theres no simple replacement. The world has enuf coal to make oil from for the next 500 years even if no more coal reserves are discovered, so making oil from coal should be a high priority. Fortunately the US air force have already started.
On 24 Apr 2009 23:00:17 GMT, terryc put finger to keyboard and composed:
I was curious as to how these "exotic" batteries compare with Li-ion.
The following specs are for a 10.8V 4.8Ah 0.7lb Li-ion laptop battery:
It has an energy density of ...
10.8 x 4.8 / (0.7 * 0.454) = 163 Wh/kgThe Quant's FAES has an energy density of 170 Wh/kg.
- Franc Zabkar
-- Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.
Try this one;
Probably the sort of thing you would want for a EV for around town, down yto the shops, etc.
Doesn't that waste quiet a bit of energy? Might be time to just bring back a coal driven steamer?
On 25 Apr 2009 02:56:48 GMT, terryc put finger to keyboard and composed:
They look impressive.
Lithium Iron Phosphate, safe battery technology. 3.2V nominal, 2.1V minimum, 4.2V maximum, 3.65V fully charged 10Ah capacity 30A continuous discharge, 120A pulse discharge 40.6mm diameter x 138mm long 365g
However, if we use 3.2V as the average discharge voltage, then the energy density would be ...
3.2V x 10Ah / 0.365kg = 88 Wh/kgEven at 3.65V the density is only 100 Wh/kg.
- Franc Zabkar
-- Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.
So why is almost no-one using lead-acid ?
Graham
When it's not cloudy !
Not remotely.
Graham
I hate to think of the volume of non-benign waste that would be produced.
Graham
All the materials known to be effective electrical couples are already well known about. Gradual development is all that's happening.
You can't grow new elements on trees.
Graham
64Wh for $92 ? The commonist practical battery size considered practical for an EV is in the 10kWh area. That's about $15,000.
Remember battery life degrades when they are discharged fully.
Graham
Ses what happens at 04:52.
Graham
which has a thin-film solar-cell coating
Shame that thin film solar is only ~ 7% efficient. Let's assume say 6m2 of solar panels and a high desert style insolation of a full 8 hours at 1 kW/m2.
That's 3.36 kWh of electrical output. Maybe good enough for 10 miles.
Pointless.
Graham
which has a thin-film solar-cell coating
solar panels and a high desert style insolation of
Depends upon the numbers you're using.
NLV Solar are claiming average efficiency of 38% and over 50% at peak for a pyrite based thin film solar-cell coating, which can even be applied over clear surfaces. Mind you, these are research based figures, which will almost certainly be reduced in production. The Quant is about 4.9m long, and 2m wide (big car) which is about 9.8m2. The actual solar collection area will be a great deal larger because the sides of the vehicle have not been included in these figures.
At 1kWh/m2, for 8hrs, that's between about 30kW and 40kW of electrical output. Reducing the efficiency to say 30% would result in 23.5kW, not an insignificant number.
dmm
for mobile vehicle? weight? For ups's and independent power system? Obvious choice.
the place for lead acid batteries is stationary locations where power drains are continuous and only vary slightly. up until now, there hasn't been many generally viable, economical alternatives. there is a lot of work in the instant power area, probably because if has the least competition from lead acid.
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