I would be surprised if big users would be dropped off during a cold snap, when everything works normally.
However, if all production capacity is in use, in a well designed network, it should still survive a loss of the largest production unit. With the spinning reserve and fast starting emergency gas turbines,it takes some time (15-60 min) before the network could survive the loss of next big power plant. However, if the second big unit is lost before all emergency units are feeding the network, this is a catastrophic situation.
In order to save the network, part of the load must be immediately dropped e.g. by cutting electricity to a big city. In developing countries rolling blackouts are common, cutting the electric feed for an hour or two rolling sequentially from city to city.
The idea with industrial disconnect agreement is to just change the priority, in which loads are first dropped. From the society point of view it is better to drop a big industrial load than dropping big cities.
I would expect that such industrial agreements to be actually used during one or two days a year, when a big power station is lost during peak load.
In the Southern US, yes, heat pumps are a primary heat method. That's what I have (two units). My brother's house, as far North as Philly also had heat pumps. Some in NY and even Vermont have resistive heat (boggle).
"Cheaper" depends on a lot of things. You're clueless, as usual.
But the shower nozzles aren't (sheesh!). When you take ten or twenty gallons out of the tank the unit will come on until it's back to temperature. Multiply that times the number of households and you have some real power. It doesn't matter a damn how well insulated the tanks are. Think man!
During the 2008/9 banking crisis, we had to take a 10% pay cut because of cash flow problems. Digikey, Avnet, and such, were shaved some too but were willing to float the business for a while until things got better. The employees never recovered that 10% (for about a year, IIRC).
st need to scale back enough to mitigate the peak. What sort of industries can't do that?
ay
is with no notice? If they are writing contracts to pay companies for shut ting down, I'm pretty sure they are planning more than a day ahead.
Your post is clearly emulating an announcement over a PA system telling peo ple to go home at 4 o'clock rather than 8. That is the definition of "no n otice".
ay basis if you will be working or not. No, it doesn't make for a lot of j ob satisfaction, but it happens.
the alternative is looking for a new job. When enough people do that he wo uld get his 40 hours back I suppose. It's all better than not working.
trolysis between 4 and 8 PM can still produce whatever they make the other
20 hours a day and the 4 hours shutdown of the high current stuff lets then do maintenance and such.
d to make a joke?
Clearly you know little about shift work. There are many jobs where you wo rk the hours they provide or you don't work at all. If this is scheduled e nough ahead people make plans accordingly.
Don't blame me for the problems it creates. It's not my system. I wouldn' t tell factories when they can have power. I would make sure they *have* p ower.
ime
Now I have no idea what you are talking about. But I will say when I was a kid we had a separate meter on the hot water heater. It shut off every da y at peak time and we had a lower rate because of that. For some reason th e power company discontinued the program and the meter was taken out and th e box sealed.
Tell that to the British. I guess they know nothing about schedules.
an.
Lol! You must be living like Ted Kaczynski.
Tell it to the judge!
Rick C.
---- Get 6 months of free supercharging ---- Tesla referral code -
Heat pumps are worthless. I bought a million-dollar house in Cupertino, California that uised heat pumps. They failed as soon as it got cold.
My main focus now is heat exchangers. They give ventilation for sealed houses but conserve the interior heat while bringing in fresh air. The concept is very simple. Here is an example for a 1 bedroom appartment:
The heat exhanger can be a set of parallel plates separated by perhaps
0,080 inches, the diameter of 12 ga aluminum wire. The plates can be 5 mil aluminum available on Amazon. You can easily stretch the aluminum wire to make it straight. Cut the sheets to 12 inch squares separated by 5 runs of
12 ga wire. Alernate squares are separated by 90 degrees. PL Premium can be used to glue the wires and plates together.
You can make the box out of standard 1/4" plywood. There are 4 chambers. One for cold inlet air from the outside which feeds fresh inlet air to the room.
The next chamber is stale room air crossing over to exit to the outside.
The stale room air will heat the fresh incoming air so you don't lose the heat. The stale exhaust air will give up its heat to the fresh incoming air so your retain the warmth. The recovery efficiency can be around 70% to
85%, which is a worthwhile savings.
The heat exchangers work the same way in the summer. The hot outside air gives up its heat to the cold interior air exiting the heat exchanger. That way you conserve the air conditioned ar you have paid for, but still get fresh air to replace the stale air from your environment.
More advanced methods can recover the humidity from the air. See google for maore details.
The blowers can be outside flush mounted blowers that use centrifugal blowers to deliver air flow against the back pressure caused by the heat exchanger. The whole unit can be mounted in a 20 inch square assembly that can be mounted in a conventional window without requiring any holes or other modifications that might upset a landlord.
Far too high for lead acid and would probably degrade li pretty fast too. Built a battery array here years ago, ex telco, lead acid batteries, 48 volt system. Ran it during the day to reduce grid load, then charge at night using off peak tariff. Interesting experiment, but in no way did it pay for itself.
Pro grade lead acid gel cell tech usually has a design life of
5 years under float conditions, but far less even at 0.1 rating under cycled conditions. Came to the conclusion it was a compete waste of money, as is solar or wind for domestic use. Total cost of ownership, payback time, failure rates etc. A fools errand...
ny go for a ground source heatpump but it cost a bit more to establish
Of course. Steve said they failed, not that they didn't work in the cold. Heat pumps are typically rated to work down to about freezing (not sure if that's freezing in Celsius or Fahrenheit ;). Below that they still work f ine in my experience until you reach the point that the heat output is not enough to keep the house warm. So instead of automatically turning on the backup heat (often straight electric) the backup should be turned on when t he set temperature isn't maintained. Straight electric is much more expens ive to run, even at temperatures below freezing around here where normal ni ghts may reach the 20's F, but seldom in the teens.
I don't know why he is going on about heat exchangers. They are for provid ing fresh air efficiently and have little to do with heating or cooling. T o the best of my knowledge ventilation is not required in residential syste ms, but are in commercial spaces.
Rick C.
---+ Get 6 months of free supercharging ---+ Tesla referral code -
No. A ground source heat pump is very expensive. You are left with air transfer. It doesn't help if your outdoor air temperature is close to freezing temperature. You cannot transfer heat from that to room temperature. It doesn't work.
Not yet. The costs for commercially available heat recovery systems are exorbitant. Most of them require plumbing to existing hot air distribution installations by external contractors. This is extranordinarily expensive.
You can do much better by yourself as I have shown.
You are speaking from a complete lack of knowledge. Perhaps you could stud y a bit of thermodynamics. The first thing you need to understand is that the relevant temperatures need to be referenced to absolute zero, so use Ke
t really so big a stretch.
Then I will happily explain how the heat pump on my old house had an adjust
worked just fine saving lots of money compared to resistive heating. I wis
F and I can see in the power history that the meter starts spinning at a mu ch higher rate. There have been nights where the usage was above 10 kW for hours while the usage above that temperature is only 2 or 3 kW. It's not a gentle curve, the change is abrupt.
n
.
Heat exchangers have no real need to tie into the heating system. They can be installed in a wall directly without connection to the heating system. Of course it is better to tie them to the ventilation system, but that is an easy task, typically done on the cold air return since it often has less complexity than the hot ducts, best if done with the original installation . The real cost is the unit itself.
Rick C.
--++ Get 6 months of free supercharging --++ Tesla referral code -
Absurd. They work fine, though the output temperature problem is real. Our downstairs unit failed a couple of weeks ago. After making a few more ozone holes, it's dead again so we're going to have to replace it but "failing as soon as it gets cold"? Stupid.
Correctly dimensioned air-to-air heat pumps are good down to about -15 C, but below that it is as bad as direct electric heating. To avoid wearing the heat pump during these cold periods, some extra heat sources are required from direct electric or burning wood etc.
In colder climate ground sourced heat pumps are often used. A single
100-150 m deep hole should be enough to heat a single house. It takes only a few days to drill such hole even into granite, so the cost
Using floor heating only a slight temperature increase (20-30 C) is needed so the heat pump is going to have a good COP.
How did you get the metal flat? I was never able to get it flat/stable enough to work. I ended up with coroplast instead. I opted for the higher efficiency of counter-flow. Was worried about the thermal conductivity of the plastic, but it worked quite well.
I don't think you appreciate how much it costs to install a ground sourced heat pump. I talked to someone once and while a conventional system would cost around $5,000 at the time, they would not write a contract for a fixed price and said they often cost some $25,000. They don't drill deep holes, at least not here. The system they described was to simply dig enough to bury enough tubing to act as a heat exchanger in a closed loop system. I b elieve the big question was how difficult it would be to dig a large enough hole.
I am in central Virginia where air cooled heat pumps are perfectly practica l. I suppose the energy savings in colder climates would be more significa nt.
Rick C.
+-- Get 6 months of free supercharging +-- Tesla referral code -
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.