Iceland doesn't have a cooling problem even in midsummer. That is unless there is a red hot lava flow headed straight for a town.
Even in the UK there are at most a handful of days where you might regret not having aircon. My own house the walls are so thick that it is possible to manage what summer heat there is merely by opening a couple of windows overnight and relying on its thermal inertia.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
See, now that is pure BS. Every office building requires air conditioning in rooms other than on the periphery, even in the dead of winter.
Rick C.
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I was talking about *domestic* properties- are you really so thick?
-- Regards, Martin Brown
Buildings only need air conditioning if they are big enough. In Iceland, only relatively few buildings are big enough for this to be an issue, as it is a small country with few people. And even then, usually all you need is an air circulation system - it does not have to be cooled.
In the UK, very few houses have any kind of air conditioning - it simply isn't necessary. Of course you will have it in bigger buildings, to get fresher air and control the humidity. But it will more often pump in warm air for heating than cold air for cooling.
In Norway, the standard is to have resistive heating for most of the year, and open the windows for cooling. In the last decade or so, air-to-air heat pumps have been a common addition for many, but not ground-based heat pumps. (The ground is mostly very hard rock, so installation would be costly - and electricity is cheap here.) Wood fires are also used, mostly because people like them rather than for efficient heating.
Icelanders live. 90% of buildings in Iceland are heated this way, using hot water that is a by-product of the geothermic powerstations.
(It's like reading something from a Victorian-age science book. Thermal
The climate differences are mainly due to the gulf stream, providing warmth from the sea. I am not convinced that this would have a significant effect on the ground temperatures (but I am certainly no expert on the topic). Geography, rock types, tectonic plates, and the topography of the underground water would make a big difference.
Where do you get this nonsense?
NT
or 30C
ure
und
nd here the temperature of both the ground and underground water at 30 feet is constant and only slightly below room temperature year round, 60? ? (15?).
only factor in determining the ground temperature. Alaska and the Nordic c ountries have very different climates and so are not likely to have much in common regarding ground and water temperatures. Geography also seems to b e a significant factor.
There's something we agree on.
Uh, look at the map. The single most consistent feature in the data is lat itude. Why do you think that is? Because the climate changes with latitud e maybe? Same as climate changing with the Gulf stream. Ergo, ground temp erature changing with Gulf stream.
Rick C.
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Actually, I misspoke. Inner rooms in typical large office buildings *ONLY* require air conditioning. In other cases *lots* of air conditioning is needed.
Rick C.
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No it isn't. At shallow depths but away from the entrance the cave temperature is roughly the annual average temperature of its surroundings. In moderately deep caves the temperature is pretty much constant year round and gets slowly warmer by about 10C for every kilometre you go downwards in the UK. Most UK caves are around 50F or
10C once you get away from the entrance. Few are deep enough to see the depth make a difference but there are mines which go 1km or more straight down. In Iceland you have to be very careful where you drill.Ground temperature is also determined by the thickness of the crust and proximity of recent magma bodies to the surface. Water in Bath and Harrogate has been running sulphurous and hot 45C from the ground since before Roman times. The latter built their baths on the site.
There is essentially no active vulcanism in the UK today but there are still some pretty hot rocks not too far from the surface. Close enough that surface waters can pass through them and get warmed.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
I work with aerospace guys who design jet engines in ancient units like that.
Physisists are sound on units. Yesterday I casually mentioned to a physisist that some silicone rubber foamy stuff on our board was 8 w/m-k, and he was instantly shocked. He's emailing me to reveal the supplier.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
You disagree and then immediately offer proof that you are wrong???? This says exactly what the map is saying.
No one is talking about deep temperatures.
You just like to talk don't you? No one said there are not other factors.
So do you have a point? Why not talk about the Marians trench?
Rick C.
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Mmkay. I've been in many offices without ac.
NT
me too, and here an office needs to have daylight and a view outside so inner rooms are rare
I wish my career had been where you live. I never had a window except for once where the only office available was a very nice one... that they crammed two cubicles into.
Not sure how you build large buildings without inner offices unless they are like shark fins. Hospitals have windows for every room, but then they tend to fan out in many directions wasting a lot of ground space.
I guess you live somewhere that they have a lot of ground space to spare.
Rick C.
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Builder specials do suck. The one in this house needed a new A coil after four years (just after we bought the house) and it's bad again. The whole shootin' match is being replaced Monday. You get what you pay for.
The variable speed fan is quieter. If it's not pumping up a big hill, the fan can run slower. The low speed is also used for higher dehumidification. The unit "over-cools" the air, causing more water to fall out.
Efficiency costs big bux. One SEER costs about $1K. The payback is longer than the life of the unit.
Of course not. You can't read. It's right in front of your eyes!
On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 10:47:55 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote :
e:
ote:
Steve Wils> >> >> >> >> >>
ood fit for the
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it got cold.
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at the
tic. Lots of people do that here too, VA/MD, but I think it's on the cusp. By the time you get to NY you need to have some other backup heat to make it affordable and then you need to consider the system cost. My heatpump/ oil burner cost $7,000 while a heatpump/electric backup was $5,000. Here y ou'd be lucky to get your money out of the oil burner. In NY it's a slam d unk. It also seems to produce better heat... actually warm.
's
own
ng
ty of homes in the city where there is no gas and a friend has gas 20 miles from any city in rural Tennessee.
arges, generation, transmission and distribution? My local utility recentl y changed their rates to double the fixed price to $20 a month and also rai sed the distribution charges a bit. They said our bills won't change much because the cost of generation is dropping! lol
old
above room temp. Blow it around a little and it feels cold. My latest hea t pump feels warm coming out of the ducts.
replacement. In the intervening 20 years the government mandated a certai n level of efficiency and I paid for an extra level above that. My heat pu mp throws out actual warm air. Not like a oil burner, but even the registe r feels warm to the feet when I step on it. It also has a two level fan bu t I don't get how that helps much other than maybe not blowing cold air whe n trying to squeeze out every last drop of heat when the compressor shuts o ff.
What brand? I found out most companies have multiple brands made on the sa me assembly line. Not sure what they do differently other than offer a lon ger or shorter warranty and advertise more between them.
The humidification makes sense, but I don't think the unit even has a measu rement for that, so how would it know when to and when not? Running the fa n at a lower speed means the system would be less efficient. The main thin g they did to increase the efficiency was to enlarge the coils to reduce th e thermal resistance. Running the fan slower would defeat that. I've neve r seen the fan run slow other than at the end of the heat cycle.
How long is the life of the unit??? Yours was obviously not so good. Also , I know I didn't pay that much more for the extra efficiency. Or I should say that unit price. I think I paid about a kilo buck more, but it was mo re than 1 SEER better.
The way they calculate SEER makes it hard to know what it might save you on fuel costs. But it works better. My house only feels cold when it *is* c old, not because the heat pump isn't pumping enough heat to feel warm.
would be very cost effective. I would need to see numbers associated with any given installation, but I didn't choose a different system because of the cost. I didn't buy the ground-sourced system because they wouldn't quo te me a number. They expected me to sign a contract to do the work regardl ess of what the cost turned out to be. Looking back, I should have gotten them to bid the contract in two portions, the fixed price, well defined wor k part and the variable cost, don't know how much work it will be part.
clude
l cost a ground-system can save you, but it will be more than just not usin g expensive backup heat. They are cheaper to run all year long.
than everyone's estimates.
lse.
om anyone here, but didn't you say the same thing applied to solar, taking everything into account the pay back was potentially non-existent? I would n't care if it was the system lifetime. That means it was a breakeven and we all get the benefit of not making as much electricity from carbon source s.
ign an open contract that I didn't think to discuss it further and asked hi m to leave.
that
t was
ntract that is binding.
ou can't even begin to expect to hold anyone to an estimate. That's why th ey call it an "estimate". Read the contract or don't, but that's what's bi nding.
LOL... How could I read it, I wasn't there!
Rick C.
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The original? I think it's "Concord" or some such. They may have been someone else's unit that they rebadged but the company no longer exists. Parts are available "as found".
The unit doesn't. The thermostat does. Low-speed fans aren't absolutely necessary. Nests, for instance, have a mode where it runs until the humidity target is met or the AC cools 3F below the set point. It does the same if there is a low-speed fan available (with the fan on the low setting).
Generally 10-15 years. Heat pumps don't last very long because they're in year-round use.
SEER isn't all, either. It says nothing about the heating ability. It's a lot more complicated than a single number, as well. The manufacturers don't give technical data out.
Good Lord. READ!
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