Which Os is better among the Windows Vista.

Nov 15, 2007 72 Replies

Yes, they do, if they want a nice-looking letter.

But...

Excuse while I roll on the floor laughing.

Microsoft might want us to _think_ Word is a DTP, but it's anything but. It's an excellent word processor that has been tarted up with features that give the illusion -- to the ignorant -- that it's suitable for DTP.

I cut my DTP teeth with the "original" Ventura Publisher, versions 2 and 3, almost 20 years ago. Those "primitive" versions, which ran under GEM (Graphics Environment Manager) utterly and totally blow away the current versions of Word (and, I assume, WP and other word processors) for producing long, complex documents. * And they're actually easier to use, because they give you direct control over what you're doing, rather than automating it.

Word has major flaws that make it virtually useless for complex documents, and even for a lot of simple ones. The worst of these is its unstable image placement. You cannot insert an image, then expect it to either remain where you put it, or move the way you want with the text flow. Last year I spent several hours in a largely unsuccessful attempt to organize the graphics in a co-worker's document. Once I got it "right", adding text or new images caused the exisiting images to irrationally shift position, which then required starting over.

Another problem is that, though Word can create TOCs pretty much by the user saying "Put a TOC here", TOC formatting is unstable, and often requires manual alterations to make the TOC look the way you want.

No one at Microsoft seems to care about these problems. And they're not new -- I was complaining about some of them over a decade ago. For example, there's a bug that causes Word to spontaneously switch to automatic repagination for no obvious reason. This bug has persisted across the last four or five versions.

It might sound paradoxical, but in making products "easy" to use, software developers often make them harder to use -- at least if you're the sort of person who cares about what they're doing, and is willing to make the effort to learn. For example, in Ventura you have to manually insert an anchor for each image. In exchange for that bit of work, you can choose how the image will flow with the text -- and it _will_ flow correctly. Word's "automatic" image-anchoring feature is not only much less flexible, but it's confusing to use -- and doesn't work correctly, anyway.

your own

I write for a living. Write is a near-featureless program that _might_ be suitable for plain letters, but is pretty much useless for anything other than very plain text. No one in their "write" mind would use Write to write letters. It's a clunky, slow, poorly designed piece of software.

Word can produce handsome, attractive documents -- if you know how to use it. Most people don't. They write as if the computer were a typewriter, rather than using styles for formatting. The result is ugly, hard-to-edit documents. (Yes, I've had to clean them up. It's appalling.) If you use Word (or any other good word processor) the way it's supposed to be used, you have no need or use for Write. **

I depend on Word for non-complex documents, and it doesn't let me down. I have a 120K-word unpublished novel created with Word. I could convert it -- in a just a few minutes -- to whatever page-layout and typographic format a publisher wanted.

There is a paradox. In general, software with a shallow learning curve (that is, that takes a while to learn) *** is often easier to use, because the slow learning process is the result of the program letting you do what you want to do -- you don't have to fight the program's "automation" -- or the fact that the designer didn't anticipate the particular way you want to do something. A good example is Ventura's TOC and index formatting. They take a bit of time to become familiar with, but you can achieve pretty much anything you want. And TOC and indexing creation is bug-free and stable.

  • By complex, I mean multi-chapter documents with complex tables of contents and indexes, tables and cross-references, and flexibly-but-stably-anchored images, with virtually any formatting the user wants. Such documents are difficult to do in Word, but are a snap in Ventura.
** I find it amazing that people refuse to spend a few hours to learn how to use a word processor _correctly_. Once you're proficient, the savings in time and frustration are huge. *** I am perennially annoyed by people complaining that a product has a "steep" learning curve. As "learning curves" would be plotted as "amount learned" against time, a steep curve is _exactly_ what you'd want.

I'm not sure what a "productivity tool" is.

Back in 1980, when I owned an Apple ][ and was discovering the wonders of word processing, another writer said to me "The computer doesn't allow me to get my work done faster. Rather, it lets me fall behind on more projects at the same time." I suppose that's "productivity" -- of a sort.

In general, software doesn't make people more productive. Rather, it lets them do things themselves that, in the past, they would have turned over to someone else. Do secretaries still take dictation? People are expected to create their own documents (including spreadsheets and business graphics), rather than dictating them. This strikes me as a loss of productivity, rather than an increase.

The reason, I suspect, that you "loathe MS Office" is that you don't have any need for it. And if you did -- would you be willing to put out the effort to learn it?

The one true piece of "productivity software" I've seen is instant messaging. I find I spend less time discussing something and coming to a decision using IM, than when using e-mail or the 'phone. (This assumes one can touch-type.)

The real change computers have wrought is what I call "democratization". People are now able to do things they didn't used to be able to do. For example, I can design and create a complex, multi-chapter document -- then deliver it to the printer, in a format suitable for creating offset plates -- all on my own, at my desk. You couldn't do that 20 years ago.

No they don't. Good presentation does not require a bloated program.

Graham

It's what MS claim Office is. I find it more a frustration tool than anything else.

Graham

In this particular (and admittedly unusual) case, it's Write that's the bloated program. It's a slow, low-performance product. And Word does many things (such as table creation) not available from Write.

anything

My point was that I'm not sure most software actually enhances people's productivity. I see no reason why any other other package would be better or worse than Office at enhancing your productivity. They simply provide a set of tools to do certain things.

Because it does *everything I need to do, not just some of them. Regardless of the incompatible .doc file versions, IMO it is still the best WP available.

I bought an iMac last week.

It came with a one-button mouse.

I purchased a bluetooth wireless Apple mouse at the time I purchased the iMac (the ONLY mouse apple-branded wireless mouse) at the same time.

It also has (gasp!) one button.

Why should I have to go out and buy an aftermarket product to work with my expensive new mac? If I'm shelling out an extra 30% for an uber-cool piece of Mac modern art, I don't want a crappy-looking yet incredibly functional peripheral now do I?

Eet ees bayter to loook goood than to work goood.

Angry American flags attack Hillary Clinton!

I rather agree with you there !

There's certain things about the way Word operates that drive me truly nuts.

Graham

use

MS

The word 'has' gotten around.

If you'd taken the trouble to actually *read* the thread before you spouted off, you'd have seen at least 'my' objection to OpenOffice. It's slow...glacially slow, to open. Click on a *.doc file in an email attachment...go have a smoke...pour some coffee, add cream & sugar...come back to the computer...drink half the cup while waiting for the file to open.

After that, it's a snap.

Click the same file--with Word associated as the default '.doc' application--and before you can even get out of your chair--you're reading it. I really wanted OpenOffice to be my default application for biz docs, but it's not there yet. When dealing with corporations, you use what they use.

I don't 'like' M$ products in general. It's the price I have to pay for 'real world' compatibility. M$ knows it...and I know it.

jak

Form over function. Image is everything.

When you have the time, I'd be curious to hear a few of them.

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