Windows Vista - worst OS yet?

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The Suicide Note | Jan 10, 2007 10:41

My thought as I started reading the essay

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by Auckland University cryptographer Peter Gutman on the "suicide note" implicit in the content protection layer of Windows Vista was that the utility of computers was being sacrificed on the altar of content protection. And, indeed, that's basically what Gutman is saying. Here's his executive summary:

Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content", typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry. He's also saying that the overwhelming focus on locking down "premium" content has significant implications for security, especially if any PC component is deemed to have a content leak:

Content-protection "features" like tilt bits also have worrying denial-of-service (DoS) implications. It's probably a good thing that modern malware is created by programmers with the commercial interests of the phishing and spam industries in mind rather than just creating as much havoc as possible. With the number of easily-accessible grenade pins that Vista's content protection provides, any piece of malware that decides to pull a few of them will cause considerable damage. The homeland security implications of this seem quite serious, since a tiny, easily-hidden piece of malware would be enough to render a machine unusable, while the very nature of Vista's content protection would make it almost impossible to determine why the denial-of-service is occurring. Furthermore, the malware authors, who are taking advantage of "content-protection" features, would be protected by the DMCA against any attempts to reverse-engineer or disable the content-protection "features" that they're abusing.

Even without deliberate abuse by malware, the homeland security implications of an external agent being empowered to turn off your IT infrastructure in response to a content leak discovered in some chipset that you coincidentally happen to be using is a serious concern for potential Vista users. Non-US governments are already nervous enough about using a US-supplied operating system without having this remote DoS capability built into the operating system.

The extent of supplication to content owners is indicated here:

As security researcher Ed Felten quoted from Microsoft documents on his freedom-to-tinker web site about a year ago

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: "The evidence [of security] must be presented to Hollywood and other content owners, and they must agree that it provides the required level of security. Written proof from at least three of the major Hollywood studios is required".

So if you design a new security system, you can't get it supported in Windows Vista until well-known computer security experts like Disney, MGM, and 20th Century Fox give you the go-ahead. It's absolutely astonishing to find paragraphs like that in what are supposed to be Windows technical documents, since it gives Hollywood studios veto rights over Windows security mechanisms.

There's a lot more in the full essay. It's not essential that you understand all the technical details to get the gist of it, but I'd welcome geekier readers coming in here with some explanatory comments for non-geeks. I confess, I find it hard to believe it could be this bad, but Peter Gutman is a lot smarter than I am.

Reply to
Homer J Simpson
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On a sunny day (Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:54:34 GMT) it happened "Homer J Simpson" wrote in :

Microsoft, and Billy Gates, ahum. I just did read Blu-Ray DVD market share is expected to be 85% in 2008. Of course Billy backed the other (wrong) system.... :-)

His content protection is impossible, if all else fails, and DRM free platforms cannot be bought, then people will use a simple processor in FPGA. I think with the right programming that also will be able to give us HD pictures and good sound.

Even if harddisk manufacturers integrate DES or something, they will have to provide keys, else they will lose much of the market. And there are always ways around those things.

Do not forget Billy owns some Hollywood production studio shares.

MS is like a mammoth, it is _too_ big and in those beasts I have read if you punched one in the tail, then it would take seconds for it to notice (nerve length), so you could kill these before they even knew about it ;-)

MS (Mammoth Simulation) is always looking for new products. But they have this delay, first there was Netscape, then IE cloned, but when they got up front they could no longer copy... and now Firefox is in. MS starts each OS from scratch it seems, 3.1 98 XP and now Vista, wrong basic philosophy, always get stuck with the same bugs.

Vista has flopped (already) I see several negative reports on the web.

You have to give it to Steve Jobs, he now has the iphone.. it may or may not be a hit, but he is always with the current tech, unlike Mammoth Simulation.

MS is dead?

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

One might suspect something more along these lines is what's happening:

(1) The media industry lobbies the computer industry to implement serious "digital rights management".

(2) The industry says "sure", and tries several schemes, all broken within a month.

(3) TMI pushes again, saying "In Vista, put in some really good DRM".

(4) MSoft puts in a half-hearted effort, which looks secure on the outside, enough to please TMI for a while.

(5) Your typical cadre of code crackers takes, somewhere between one and three months to break Vista's DRM.

(6) TMi is unhappy, but who cares. MSoft gets the best of both ends, claiming to provide DRM, but in actuality many people bypass it, making Vista a usable OS.

Just my guess....

Reply to
Ancient_Hacker

I trust "The Invisible Hand"; It sorted the producers of DVD players correctly implementing the region code scheme well and truly out for good.

The same will happen with Vista - the third fixpack or thereabouts will disable most of the DRM to ensure that Vista supports the asian hardware that blatantly ignores/fakes DRM - because the cusomers will yet again learn to specifically ask for it.

Reply to
Frithiof Andreas Jensen

Late at night, by candle light, "Ancient_Hacker" penned this immortal opus:

Well, I'm keeping to win2k for myself. I don't like even XP but I'm stuck with it on a couple of boxes I have to use and maintain. But on my private box I'll stay with 2k until MS somehow manages to disable it, Linux thereafter.

- YD.

--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.
Reply to
YD

"Frithiof Andreas Jensen" wrote in message news:eo2s8v$5ns$ snipped-for-privacy@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...

I very much doubt that. I suspect the *vast* majority of consumers (say, >90%) with (standalone) DVD players either (1) own one that implements region coding "correctly" (i.e., won't player non-region 1 discs if they're in the U.S.) and can't be readily circumvented or (2) own one that allows easy circumvention, but are unaware of the "feature" or have no desire to use it anyway.

Most people are not particularly technically savvy and when told, "a European DVD won't play in your U.S." they just figure that it must be some technical problem and that's the end of it... it doesn't occur to them that it's purely a marketing/political issue.

Reply to
Joel Kolstad

Not everyone is savvy enough to figure out how to apply the anti-DRM software .

From what I'm reading, there's plenty of hardware that is used with the DRM . . . that could become: you need the DRM software to use the hardware at all. I think that is the RIAA and MPA's goal - the hardware includes protection that the software must use.

They were even looking at ways to include DRM in the decoded audio and video so you couldn't record from the analog format. Any idea if Vista does anything like that?

Anyhow you are expected to pay a penalty for both the increased hardware requirements and software costs, poor performance, software overhead. While MS has a EULA that gives them permission to go in and change your system without your consent.

Sounds like Ted Stevens (that paragon of technical competence) designed it.

In another decade we will be buying hardware from China and operating systems from India.

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Reply to
default

On a sunny day (Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:46:48 -0800) it happened "Joel Kolstad" wrote in :

I dunno about the US, but here people DO change regio code. I know of no player that does not have a hack, usually a simple key combination to enter the service menu. All my players have a little piece of paper hidden in the battery compartment of the remote control, with on it that key combination.

A little more difficult is the macrovison hack, so we have a 'kastje' (Dutch for box) for that. Perfectly legal, and I designed my own, because the player would not even switch of macrovion pulses on my own DVDs. There are more advanced hacks too, as doing the player board setup via JTAG etc.

If you have a player, do some google search for the hack.

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

In the USA this is not usual. No doubt this is the region the MPAA cares most about.

Reply to
Homer J Simpson

Hi Jan,

I imagine changing a non-region 1 (U.S.) player to playback region 1 DVDs is the most popular switch out there. :-)

It's usually the big names like Sony that don't have hacks available. I imagine most all of those no-name Chinese DVD players have hacks, just not all of them are readily Googleable.

That's a good place to store it; thanks for the idea.

Here in the U.S. boxes to defeat Macrovision (or HDCP, more contemporaneously) are usually sold as "image enhancers" and specifically avoid directly citing content removal abilities so that they can be legally sold.

Reply to
Joel Kolstad

On a sunny day (Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:07:45 -0800) it happened "Joel Kolstad" wrote in :

Yes, same here, 'image enhancer' is 'beeldverbeteraar' in Dutch.

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

I've bought three DVD players recently, two of them had a slip of paper inside the box, on top of everything, that gave three simple steps to circumventing region code protection. The third one was advertised with "region free" as a major feature.

Sure, maybe a lot of people threw that paper out not knowing what it meant, but even people who are vaguely aware of the issue would surely have followed up.

niftydog

Reply to
niftydog

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:42:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje Gave us:

Do you believe everything you read, you f***in retard?

Since this thread is about content protection...

One reason everyone dissed Sony's UMD disc form factor was because of their root kit shit in it.

Don't go counting chickens that haven't even hit the f****ng pecking yard yet.

Reply to
MassiveProng

Heck, over here, in the Far East, you don't even need a hack! The majority of no-name Korean & Taiwanese players don't implement region codes at all. When shopping for DVD players I always look for the words "region free" on the box. It's usually either in big, bold, red letters next to the words "mp3 playback" or listed in the feature list.

Reply to
slebetman

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:13:58 -0500, Sean Gave us:

Just remember to go look up each all caps word.

Films get released to THEATERS around the world on a SCHEDULE.

This PRACTICE has been in place for DECADES.

DVD releases FOLLOW behind theatrical releases at much closer intervals than VHS or Laser disc did, therefore, they to needed a method by which not only scheduled releases could be managed, but video playback format, etc. So when playback hardware and region masters get constructed, there are several reasons that get the customer the format and content meant for his area, but the main reason is that of a SCHEDULE.

Reply to
MassiveProng

While i understand your disgust with MS Vista, and make no mistake, i also think it is a disgusting, unsupportable, unusable piece of crap, with way too much attempted concessions to the rabid DRM types, the mega-mastodon takes way too many spears slings and arrows to kill in any short time.

--
 JosephKK
 Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.  
  --Schiller
Reply to
joseph2k

I have tried RC1, you are looking at incremental breakdown. Some in a few months, some taking over two years. None of it will stand up for much longer. Serious DRM is quite impossible, military grade crypto at consumer environment is quite impossible.

--
 JosephKK
 Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.  
  --Schiller
Reply to
joseph2k

Welcome to the club. The first and second will all be about fixing the already well known driver problems. Deleting the doomed, and ultimately meaningless, DRM may take longer though.

--
 JosephKK
 Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.  
  --Schiller
Reply to
joseph2k

Not usual in the USA? The land of freedom-loving outlaws? Best exemplified by Prohibition inspiring them to come into existence, and the superpower of the West has has had them reinforced ever since as well as in the past (from "Whiskey Rebellion" to responses to the 1970's national

55 MPH speed limit?)

Surely I think MPAA and RIAA should feel that it best serves their interests for pricing of being legit to not be so high as to motivate many Americans to think that they are better off being outlaws. Maybe enough Amercans should tell their Congresscritters that they care more about this (regardless of whose side they are on) than they do about "gay marriage"!

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Reply to
Don Klipstein

Believe It: Most people here (DK) buy DVD's all over the place, Airports f.ex., and also like the "real" editions NOT the "we speak Danish" el crappo dub jobs from Danish distributors - and they expect them to Work too so that *is* the question put to the sales people: "Will this play my American DVD's", if not, find one that Will! The USD 100 generic Chinese DVD players people buy these days all come with instructions on how to err.. "program" the coutry code in the box. On my player, guess what, leaving the country code unset disables the functionality altogether (IF it ever worked at all, which I doubt since there is no business case for making it work properly).

Of course if you buy SONY ... you sort of asked for it!

Reply to
Frithiof Andreas Jensen

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