TV shows stripes/lines at the top of the screen

And if you understood English a little better, you would realise that I was not professing myself to be some kind of ultimate guru. " Those of *us* " is plural. " Collective " means all together.

So what I was saying was that if you take the 20 or so professional electronic engineers, who are properly qualified in this field, and who regularly offer help to people on here, assume them arbitrarily to have each been at it for 20 years, that gives a " collective wisdom " in the subject, of some 400 years. Now unless you are planning to defy nature in some way, and get to age 400, you are never going to get to that level on your own.

It is true that I do not know how many fields you are trained and skilled in, but by your own admission, although you consider yourself to be some kind of expert in this field, you are not properly trained, having learnt what you do know by whatever method you have for self teaching. I don't care if you took a postal degree in it, and became Dr Fixit, unless you have had proper practical training in the subject, and most importantly, its safety angles, by someone properly qualified himself, I don't consider you to be sufficiently trained or skilled in the subject, to offer advice about potentially dangerous work to the electronically naiive. You are completely at odds with those of us on here who are qualified, when you claim to be able to do so.

You may not think that you were encouraging someone to take a risk beyond their capability, and perhaps ultimately, you weren't, but from the statements that the OP originally made, it appeared to the rest of us that he was not sufficiently savvy in the subject to prevent him possibly being a danger to himself. Others, definitely not capable, may read your rubbishing of our posts, and actually believe you. I don't know how much you actually know about switch mode power supplies, but they really are potentially VERY dangerous in unskilled hands.

I did actually agree that some of the responses had been less than polite, ( my post of the 13th, above ) but disputed that anyone had been " flamed ", and I still dispute that, and I stand by what I said, that if you think that is flaming, you have never seen it in reality. Try looking up one Mr Andre Jute, a self proclaimed audio expert. You will find many posts of his on Usenet. Now that guy has flaming down to a fine art.

So please, don't assume anything about how long I've been around, don't call me kiddo, don't question my properly trained skills in electronic service and safety, don't ask me to " get over myself " and don't ask me to try to be more civil. I have never been anything other than polite or civil to you or any of the others.

Arfa

Dear "Electromotive Guru": Not everyone that asks for an opinion or advice can gracefully and "politely" accept wheat they hear particuarlly if they were looking for justification for a unadviseable or unwise action. As Arfa Daily indicated, there is a lot of collective wisdom on this group.... if you don't like the answers then don't ask the questions...... in other words: Crawl back into the hole you have been hiding in and Buzz Off Bucko.... and definately "get over YOURSELF", Mr Electromotive Guru. electricitym

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Electromotive GURU You are the one that by your own screen name professes to be a guru..... ....you need to get over your self. Don't so quickly discard the advice you get here. If you don't like what you hear, then don't bother posting and don't assult the regulars on this group who volunteer their unpaid time to help folks who genuinely solicit repair help and suggestions;.and I dare say that most of the regulars here know a hell of a lot more about television repairs than you do. Just GO AWAY.....

Well, I have 30 years experience in various aspects of electronics. I have worked in the design, repair, construction and modification of electronic circuits. However, in those 30 years I have not received any formal training of any significance, yet have been called upon to train others.

In your post you have IMHO managed to disrespect possibly half the group or more, many of them knowledgeable amateurs/hobbyists or 'unqualified' but talented pros who have no formal training- well done.

It's ironic that my opinion on this thread echos your own sentiments exactly, yet you can be so sneering and condescending to people like me who don't hold the same precious piece of paper as you do. I have always respected and generally agreed with your opinions on this group, so I am rather disappointed with your post.

Sorry, Arfa, but that's just how I feel. Did you really mean what you said or was it posted in haste as a kneejerk response to a post you perhaps found provocative? I sincerely hope it's the latter.

Dave

Dave D: I have read and re-read Arfa's and your posts and I can not, for the life of me, see how you or anyone else could be offended by Arfa's comments. Your "practical" experience and years of "practical" learning can many times beat the best formal schooling. Frankly, the best techs I personallly know and respect actually have a combination of both types of training. Don't let yourself be intimitated by the words of others, you know what you know and have confidence in your knowledge but also know your limitations.... I think Clint Eastwood coined that phrase. electricitym

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snipped:

Hi Dave

I am sorry that my response to Mr Electromotive Guru, has caused you offence. It certainly wasn't intended to. To answer your basic question ; no, it was not a kneejerk reaction. It was a considered response to what I felt to be an immature and unwarranted pop at me personally. As I am really sure that you of all people know, I am not given to kneejerk responses. For sure, occasionally I get annoyed with the odd knob-head on here, and I might well post a sarcastic response, but it's quite clear that I am doing that. I choose my words carefully, and generally, I mean what I say, although I will accept that sometimes, such things as cultural differences, may skew the meaning to some readers. I speak american fairly well, as I go there quite a lot, and I am aware that in many areas of america, very literal meanings are taken from statements, that may have been intended as being rather more oblique, so I try to avoid colloquial stuff, for that reason.

So, let's try to be a bit more clear on what I'm saying, for everyone's benefit. I think a lot of the problem here is semantics. When I'm saying " qualified ", some - including yourself - are taking it that I mean having a piece of paper to say that you can do the job. Although in general, with dangerous jobs, I do consider this to be the case, it has to be tempered with common sense. If, like you, a person has been in the job, and making a proper living from it, for 30 years, then a degree of ' qualification ' must be accepted. I would be willing to bet that somewhere in the dim distant past, someone taught you at least the basics of personal safety when working with electricity, and how to carry out a repair in a way that was safe to the public.

I actually know many engineers that have no paper, but learnt their trade many years ago by a combination of mentoring and book reading and doing the work. I would not consider them to be unqualified any more than you, and would trust them to give out good safe advice. On the other hand, I also know many ' gifted amateurs ' who sell insurance or build boats or whatever during the day, and could hold a converstion with you about electronics, and sound very knowledgeable. However, I would not consider them to be qualified to be giving out good safe information on dangerous items such as switch mode power supplies.

I think that for the most part, the people who post questions on here, and the lurkers, would accept this, and I would be surprised if they would consider that I had disrespected them, as you say. I do not consider that anything I said was "condescending" or "sneering", and by the same token that you say that you have previously respected and agreed with what I have said, and are now ' rather disappointed ', I feel that I have to echo that feeling back at you, as I think that your choice of words is ill considered, and I do feel personally affronted by them

Just as a matter of interest, based on posts that you have previously made, if someone asked me to put a name to the 20 or so posters on here that I considered 'qualified' to give valid and safe information, your name would have been right up there with them ...

As I'm sure that you realise, if you stop and think about it, I have never been one to try to cause offence to anyone on here. I have contributed to this, and other groups, under various nics, for many years. Like you, and others on here, I have very many years experience in various aspects of electronic service work, and I honestly believe that it is my duty to try to help others to benefit from that experience, and become better, safer engineers - both amateur when appropriate repairs are being attempted, and fellow professionals when they're in trouble - and to that end, I willingly and freely give my time to the group, as I'm sure, do you. However, I will not lie down and take personal attacks from people like Mr Electromotive Guru who, no matter what he might say to the contrary, does not *appear* 'qualified' to give out safe information. I base this belief on statements that he has made in his posts, that have also been picked up by others, that no person operating within the electronics business, with either paper or life qualification, would actually make.

These are just my personal beliefs, and I stand by them. I do not expect you, or anyone else, to accept them unquestioningly, as any kind of ' guru pronouncement ', but neither do I expect them to just be dismissed out of hand.

I have no desire to fall out with anyone on here, and if I have caused offence to anyone, then I am sincerely sorry. However, if anyone insists on being offended, then sobeit. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings, and makes my position perfectly clear for the future. ;~}

Arfa

Hi Arfa,

OK, I've been a s*it, I'm sorry.

It was this which drew my attention-

"unless you have had proper practical training in the subject, and most importantly, its safety angles, by someone properly qualified himself, I don't consider you to be sufficiently trained or skilled in the subject, to offer advice about potentially dangerous work to the electronically naiive. You are completely at odds with those of us on here who are qualified, when you claim to be able to do so."

I fully appreciate that no offence was intended, but re-reading this I still see it as being open to the interpretation of casting self taught people in a less than favourable light. However- you are Arfa Daily and I do misinterpret people occasionally! If you say it was not intended that way I accept I am wrong and being over sensitive, your word is enough for me.

Incidentally, no cultural differences here as fas as I'm aware- we're fellow Limeys if I'm not mistaken?

I'm sorry if my words offended you, I really mean that. They weren't meant to offend at all- but I can see I was rather, erm, 'direct'. My disappointment was that it was you who said what at the time I thought you meant, many other people would have gone unnoticed as I would have had no expectations if you see what I mean. However, I withdraw my comments entirely- I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here, my fault not yours.

As for falling out, that is the last thing on my mind I can assure you. I'm a bit infamous amongst friends and family for calling a spade a spade (though sometimes like in this case I call a spade a ham sandwich!) and I don't mince my words which can get me into bother, but it is just my way, I don't mean to come across as nasty. I also sometimes post after alcohol, (check the time of posting ;-)) which kind of dulls the specific brains cells (I have some-honest!) which deal with self-control, interpretation and context ;-)

I do hope you can excuse me and forget about this, good people are often too scarce on Usenet, you're one of them in my book and I'm certain others feel the same.

Best Regards,

Dave

That's fair comment. On reflection I was rather hasty and abrupt with Arfa, and he didn't deserve it. My mistake, apology given.

Dave

All accepted unreservedly. I can see where you are coming from on the self-taught angle. I don't have any basic beef with self-taught people, and I'm sure that very many who post on here to solicit help, fall into that category. I would state again that not having formal qualifications, does not preclude the possibility of someone being qualified to hand out valid advice. I do, however, draw the line, where a person who is an amateur in this particular field, considers himself to be qualified to advise a person with little knowledge, on how to carry out work on dangerous equipment, with scant attention to safety, and indeed to make light of safety advice given by people who are genuinely qualified by virtue of either formal examination, or long service in the trade.

For sure, sometimes this will catch people who are genuinely good safe amateurs, but they are, I feel, in the minority.

Anyways, I guess we all understand one another's point of view now, and we can get on and back to where we were. To anyone who has been offended by my point of view, don't be. No offence is intended, and unless anyone else wants to take me to task, I don't think that there's any further virtue in pursuing it. d;~)

Arfa

Thanks, Arfa!

Fair comment.

I honestly don't know if that's the case or not, so I really can't say whether that's right or wrong TBH.

Agreed!

Dave