Re: U.S. Using Fake Cell Towers On Planes To Gather Cell Phone Data

The problem is we don't know all of the different devices

> are out there, nor what size or power constraints they have.

We know the bad guys use (at least) the following devices: a. Airplane (Boeing DRT) b. Automobile (Harris Stingray) c. Pedestrian (Harris Gossamer) d. Laptop (Harris Purpoise & Harris Fishhawk systems)

Here's a picture of the Harris Dirtbox:

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Here's a picture of the $100K Harris Stingray & Stingray II:

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Here's a picture of the $20K Harris Gossamer 4000:

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Here's a PDF of the >$25K Fishhawk & Purpoise laptop packages:

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Reply to
David Howard
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First, there is nothing stopping anyone from using those devices in other places. And there is no evidence that other devices are not in use.

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Reply to
Jolly Roger

Think about what you just said. Let's review the numbers.

a. They fly a Cessna equipped with a Boeing DRT (dirtbag) overhead b. It picks up tens of thousands of cell signals during the flight c. You think they're gonna connect tens of thousands of phone calls?

Reply to
David Howard

I've thought about this, but, except for a single-use phone, I'm not sure, practically, how this can be done.

How do we go about getting a phone that can't be traced back to us?

Sure, we can buy a phone & SIM card for cash, with a pre-paid cash account, so, now we have a phone that isn't traced to us (except for the store cameras). We can turn it off miles before we get home, so, all the bad guys know is the location where you've used it.

But, after the very first phone call, the phone can now be traced back to us, because, the bad guys know whom you called. After two, three, four calls, they pretty much have you, because they can just *ask* those people you called who you were.

So, I don't see, realistically, how you can possibly not be traced, unless you only use the phone once.

Reply to
David Howard

I have been checking WiGLE lately, and it knows a string of numbers about the tower, and it puts the tower on a Google map almost exactly. T-Mobile 209159_256_17859-GSM-EDGE -85dB 3:33:19pm T-Mobile 209159_255_10503-GSM-EDGE -85dB 10:12:32pm

When I touch the tower on the map display, it gives me: T-Mobile 209159_255_10503 - null - HSPA;us Signal = -79dB Type = GSM First Seen = 3:41:11pm Capabilities = EDGE;us Channel = N/A Observations = 94

Any idea what the "observations" indicate?

Googling, I found a few programs aimed at cell towers.

3G 4G WiFi Map & Speedtest, by OpenSignal
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Signal Finder

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Antennas

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RF Signal Tracker

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It looks like "open signal" is the recommended cellphone tower tracking app:

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So, I'll test these out, but this search shows that "open signal" is the one to use first and foremost.

Reply to
David Howard

David Howard wrote

But not for very long.

Its trivially easy to do.

Just buy one for cash.

Criminals do it all the time.

Trivial to avoid the transaction being seen by a store camera.

Not if you aren't actually stupid enough to call anyone that has any association with you.

Not if you aren't actually stupid enough to call anyone and tell them who you are.

Doesn?t matter a damn if you use it more than once as long as you don?t call anyone associated with you or tell anyone you call who you are.

Reply to
Rod Speed

You agreed with me that the burner phone concept is impractical for anyone who, for privacy reasons, doesn't wished to be traced by the government, yet, who wants to call people that they know (which are, for example, the main types of calls "I" make).

They're great for: a) Single-use b) Nefarious purposes c) Remote control

But, they're lousy for an average citizen who simply wants his privacy back.

Reply to
David Howard

If cellular interceptor devices only existed on planes you might have a point. Oops.

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Reply to
Jolly Roger

David Howard wrote

I never agreed with anything of the sort.

Doesn?t have to be single use, just used for a short enough time that 'they' wont get any useful information from what calls are made from or to it.

By definition you never had any privacy with phone calls.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Hi miso, You are mostly correct, in that Android WiGLE freeware appears to mostly be for wardriving WiFI SSIDs, but, it also lists the cellular towers it sees.

The advantage is that the cellular tower information nearly exactly matches the

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maps you pointed us to, so, you can tell if the tower your phone is connected to is at least a known tower (and not one of the unnamed rogue towers).

The disadvantage of WiGLE is, as you said, that it clutters up the output with WiFi SSIDs (which is its primary purpose), so, we need *better* software specifically for cell tower connection information.

It seems, to me, that it "should" be *easy* to be warned when our cellphones connect to a rogue tower, either from the overhead Boeing DRT (aka dirtbag), or the mobile Harris Stingray, or the pedestrian Harris Gossamer devices. a. The rogue cell sites all appear to be unnamed (to date), b. While they "can" connect the call, they generally disconnect you, c. They appear to drop your connection down from 4G to 3G to 2G, d. They all seem to try to put your phone in maximum output mode, e. They tell your phone they have higher signal strength than they actually do, f. If it's on an airplane, then it will exist for short periods only, g. The rogue sites are not on the existing FCC databases, etc.

Given that these general characteristics seem to be consistent, how hard do you think it would be for someone to code up an app which automatically WARNS the user (sort of like how AV programs use heuristics to warn users) that a rogue site is suspected nearby?

What would be useful is, when they fly these airplanes overhead, that the tens of thousands of people being spied upon by these bad guys all get a notification on their phone of the illegal activity by law enforcement overhead.

Each flight would make the news.

Reply to
David Howard

I'm not Miso, but you can force most decent phones not to go into '2G' mode.

That can be done on most 'dumb' phones and - AFAIK - on most (all?) Android phones (and I assume also on iPhones).

For example on my (4.1.1) phone: Settings -> 'All' tab -> WIRELESS & NETWORKS -> Mobile networks -> Network mode (Change the network operating mode) -> Preferred network mode ->

On my phone this gives options:

GSM / WCDMA auto WCDMA only GSM only

If I would set this to 'WCDMA only', it would not get into GSM (== '2G') mode [1].

[1] This space is left blank for some loon to claim that the feds can revert this setting as well.
Reply to
Frank Slootweg

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