PAL DVD on USA player?

I accidentally bought a PAL DVD (it was shipped from Cleveland!)**

Then, I accidentally came across a web page giving instructions how to change the region of some DVD players to whatever one wants.

This doesn't help me, does it?

DVD recorder/players sold in the USA won't play PAL DVDs, will they?

** In the ebay ad, he wrote clearly that it was PAL, and he wrote it in red!, but it didn't register.
Reply to
mm
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If you have a region free player, it won't care. There is no such thing as PAL data. Most DVD rippers will remove the region and that is that. My LG player doesn't seem to care what region the disk is from.

Reply to
WangoTango

**Some of the cheaper brands will convert PAL to NTSC on the fly (as well as have a simple remote hack to change the region).

Go here and see if any of your DVD players/recorders are on the list:

formatting link

I have a Magnavox player that I picked up from Circuit City for $35-$40 that does a great job of playing European DVDs.

Reply to
kaboom

"WangoTango"

** Bollocks.

** More bollocks.

The data is formatted as either PAL or NTSC on the disk.

** Not the question at all.
**Region code is not the issue.

The vast majority of DVD plays sold in the USA will not play a PAL formatted dick - those that will output a PAL signal that the owner's TV set must be able to cope with.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

The DVD drive in our TV computer was perfectly happy switching to play a PAL disc.

BEWARE!!!! you can only change the drive like 4 times and then it stays in the last format. I'm told this is stored in the drive itself and while I'm sure there is a way to reset this counter, I don't know what it is. The ATI DVD player looked just fine with PAL.

G=B2

Reply to
stratus46

The region code and video encoding are two different things. DVD's can either be 24/1001 (NTSC film), 25 (PAL), or 30/1001 (NTSC TV) frames per second. It's up to your DVD player to convert them to the TV set.

One of the DVD players I bought in 2000 had a PAL/multisystem switch, the other had a software setup option (via the remote) of convert everything to PAL, conveert everything to NTSC, or leave it in the system it was encoded in (Multisystem TV). Every one I have purchased since has had that option, and may of the ones sold here are also sold under other names in the US.

Region code is a different issue. The name brand players seem to care, the cheap Chinese ones don't. They can be easily set to any or all region codes.

As for playing disks on the computer there are several ways to do it without affecting the region code of the computer. DVD drives (except for a short time around 2006 Apple drives) can read the encrypted data of a DVD disk without decrypting it and therefore without triggering the region code protection.

This requires the software on the computer to decrypt the disk, something which is very common these days. You can use the freeware players VLC or mplayer on almost anything (including Windows), or buy (free trial) the program AnyDVD for Windows. AnyDVD is not a DVD player, it is a device driver that intercepts the encrypted data and decrypts it so that the disk appears to be unencrypted (have no region code at all).

You can't easily reset the region code counter in the drive, but you can IF YOU DO IT BEFORE IT IS LOCKED, turn it off. You can find information at

formatting link

You also have to change the region code in software for the Windows system, there are programs to do it on the above web site.

I used to "flash" (change the microcode/firmware) on my drives to make them region code free, as it were, but for several years I have not bothered. The DVD players I buy here (under $30 each) are already region code free, and I use VLC and Xine (under Linux), and AnyDVD under Windows to play them.

You could also use one of the DVD copy programs to make an unencrypted and therefore region free, copy of the disk.

Note that US copyright law is different than anywhere else, so you may need to consult a lawyer if that concerns you. YMMV. Void where prohibited by law, etc...

Geoff.

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
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Reply to
Geoffrey S. Mendelson

There's no such thing as a PAL DVD - or NTSC, for that matter. They are just called that to identify the region they are 'allowed' for.

--
*Just remember...if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Phased Alternate Line? How interesting.

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*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

The term PAL in reference to the DVD refers to the picture encoded, originally a PAL (or SECAM) 50 fields per second interlaced picture with 1:4 chroma data.

The encoded signal is 25 frames per second, and still has the same chroma information, but the chroma is stored separately in the data stream, the way it was on a separate track on VHS/BETA video tape.

It's up to the player to figure out how to play it. To be played on a standard TV, the frames have to be cut down to 625 lines, and split into two fields before being played on a PAL TV. The chroma information has to be phase encoded and added as a color subcarier.

Note that the chroma information is the same with NTSC or PAL signals, the difference is how it is added to the signal. NTSC signals added the color at a subcarrier frequency of 3.57 mHz, which was beyond the luminance signals of the day.

The chroma also tended to "wander" which is why NTSC TV sets had tint controls.

PAL (which is a later standard), was modifed to 25 frames per second, with

625 lines per frame (because of the slower frame rate), with the color carrier at 4.43 mHz. The color phase of the color subcarrier is reset every other line, hence the name (Phase Alternating Line), which eliminates the need for a tint control.

The standard is that NTSC derived signals are 30 frames per second, PAL are

25, except that Brazil uses 30 frames per second PAL over the air. Since there are no such thing as 30 frames per second PAL DVD's. I expect the DVD players converted NTSC disks to PAL signals on the way out, and upconverted 25 frames per second PAL disks to 30 when playing them.

It's becoming a moot point, because MPEG level 4 encoding, aka DIVX and H.263 or H.264, does not have a fixed frame rate. Except for key frames, if the image does not change, there is no encoded data. It's up to the playback device to repeat any intermediate frames as necessary.

Geoff.

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
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Reply to
Geoffrey S. Mendelson

Hi,

I am not the > [?]

Usually NTSC?based discs provide 480 scan lines, while PAL provide 576 scan lines. No problem for computer systems (and I joined rpc1.org long time ago ;) ). But I need a player that will put out the correct lines via HDMI (assuming of course my Mits DLP will take it properly). Meaning the HDMI stream should use 576i mode on the PAL discs (I?d like to let the Mits do the scale-up, otherwise we will use the player?s up-conversion to 1080p if done properly).

I have no way of telling what the manufacturers do in this regard. I _think_ Oppo?s newer players might be doing what I expect here, and Newegg does sell some ?multisystem? type players as well, but how are we to know via their published technical specs?

FWIW ? I am amassing a collection of both types of DVDs, presently. (For example, I can see the wiggly video on the UK shows that were professionally converted to NTSC, while the PAL version of the very same show suffers no artifacts like that, AFAICS.) These are oldish shows, originally mainly shot on studio videotape, so no use in trying to create hi-def ?bluray? remasters of them (sadly).

Thank you / anyone for any insight.

Reply to
SciFi

The transmitted luminance bandwidth was always 4.2MHz, even before color.

That's not quite right.

The belief that NTSC is a stupid design, and PAL corrects all the bone-headed elements of NTSC, is untrue. The original NTSC proposal was actually PAL (I have the copy of Electronics magazine to prove it), and NTSC is, overall, a less-compromised design than PAL.

I still don't understand how a single data set can be /easily/ converted to

480 lines or 576 lines. Notice I said /easily/.
Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Indeed. All down to the player.

Most UK (PAL) TV/VHS combinations would play genuine NTSC tapes - via a bit of a cludge.

But I don't think the reverse was true in the US.

These days, many TVs will accept any broadcast frame and field combination. And others too. My DVD plays 'NTSC' discs happily on my TV.

--
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    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Can't remember exactly what I was taught it being so many years ago, but it was something like:-

NTSC gives the best studio pictures. PAL records best. SECAM transmits best.

Or perhaps any combination of the above. ;-)

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

PAL was used in Europe to minimize the effects of non-constant group delay in the European distribution system. (PAL is less-sensitive to this, at the expense of chroma desaturation.) The US microwave system didn't have this problem, and NTSC's designers did not see any inexpensive way to take advantage of PAL (for such things as automatic hue correction), so it was dropped.

NTSC also has wider color bandwidth, and the color signals match the way the eye sees color.

NTSC and PAL are pretty much Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee, though -- they're fundamentally the same thing, and it's easy to convert from one to the other. SECAM is a classic example of truly lousy design. It makes recording and transmitting the signal simple, while requiring a more-expensive receiver. Not good.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Would you like a detailed explanation? Or are you afraid of the truth?

In what ways? Be specific. (Pardon me while I go off to take a nap.)

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Put up or shut up.

PS: You might also look up the definition of "sophistry".

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Considering the 1960's attitude that TV sets (and TV reception) was something to be limited and controlled, it's wonderful. :-)

The US never had a tax on TV sets.

Before VAT the UK (and most of the rest of the world) had a luxury tax on TV sets, and the UK has a TV Tax. It's 142 quid per year, which is enough to buy a decent TV set.

Here it's 650 NIS a year, more than the cost of a 21 inch CRT TV, but due to the high taxes (besides VAT) on TV set's not quite the cost of one. You can buy a 21 inch "full hdtv" computer monitor with VGA and DVI connectors on it for less, but the moment you add a composite, S-video or HDMI jack*, and or a tuner, it doubles in price.

Geoff.

  • Yes I know an HDMI jack is a DVI jack with sound added, but DVI is a computer interface therefore a business/educational device, HDMI is an entertainment device.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
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Reply to
Geoffrey S. Mendelson

You can prevent the 'four strikes and you're out' happening by running dvd43 (freeware) in the background.

formatting link

--
Ian
Reply to
Ian Jackson

Maybe I should have said that I *was* able to play the dvd in my computer too, using Cyberlink Power DVD, and it didnt' say a peep about format. And I have my computer connected to my tv as of about

30 days ago. But I still wanted to understand how stand-alone dvd players work

The url someone else provided seem to point to a way to remove the region limitation (by putting in either a different region number, or

255 which I suppose is the union of all possible region numbers, all bits on? I havent' done that yet, but the dvd in question is region 0 anyhow. I'm not going looking for out of region dvds, but I may end up with one, like I ended up with this.

Thanks

Reply to
mm

That seems strange because it was labeled PAL Region 0. Sorry that I didn't say that in the first post. And aiui Region 0 means it will play in a dvd player set for any region.

Reply to
mm

Hi!

I've seen some drives that would reset this counter if the firmware were updated. However, it was my understanding that NTSC and PAL playback were not constrained to the region setting.

I don't remember which drives behaved that way and which ones did not.

William

Reply to
William R. Walsh

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