Equipment, and the Useless Eco- legislation ...

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I've never contacted main agents for spares. If I can't get around it with a generic part or improvisation that's the end of the repair as far as i am concerned, eg microcontroller with embedded firmware, if thats gone then I cut my loses at that point. Ever since hearing about Tektronix , Guernsey spares policy. Every so often cut by half the number of spares on the racks, sell those off at auction and double the price of the remainder, hence likes of £760 plus VAT for small EHT oscillator transformer.

-- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on

Couple of things:

Here - years ago when I got into Electronics repairs - I was told two stories - one being companies keep parts for 5 years - the other 10, so who knows. I'm not sure if they still follow those rules - but if they do - then in one case - I can see where you would be SOL. On the other (10) years - you should still be able to get them.

As to recycling - it is such a joke. When I was like 6 or so and in Elementary School - we had "film strips" showing us "future" recycling efforts using factories and so on to recycle all sorts of products. In say the past 10 years - bins came out with "some of" the local garbage contractors - to separate cans, glass, etc... - but that "fad" - died. So - they can harp on recycling all they want - they're not enforcing it like they think.

And I agree - this country - maybe the world - has become a dumping ground for irrepairable electronics. "I" don't buy "anything" new - unless it is a must. I much prefer the old and it is a lot easier to maintain. My eyes don't swear at me for trying to see the SMD........

Obtaining power transformers were always a problem unless they were common. It wasn't unusual for a company not to stock many as they rarely failed. I've seen it a few times in 35 years and always had problems getting power transformers as a spare part.

You`ll probably find that although most mains trannies never fail, you sometimes get a particular item where the mains transformer is a common failure be it windings or some built in protection device. On my bench now is a huge Sony amplifier and a Denon with opencircuit primaries. The Sony has failed because the thermal fuse embedded in the windings has gone o/c simply due to the heat build up.

The mains tranny on a lot of equipment is a designated safety part. I`m not sure how the law stands, but I think such a part has to be replaced by a exact replacement from the manufacturer.

Ron(UK)

I always treat that as being the case, Ron, and would never dream of substituting a mains tranny in one that was a 'commercial' repair to which I have to put my name. The legal position, should anything go wrong with a substitute, is a potential nightmare. I see a lot of high end AV amps, as well as group PA amps, and seem to have seen an increase in failures of mains trannies recently - last 12 months maybe. And not just open primaries which are, as you rightly say, often down to a failed thermal fuse embedded in the windings. As you have a couple on the bench right now, I wonder if you feel that you have seen an increase in the incidence of tranny failures ?

In the last few weeks even, I have had three transformers with short circuit primaries (yes, that's *short* circuit ...) One was a Marshall PA amp, and another was a StudioMaster mixer desk / PA. The third was a Musical Fidelity

300 series Nuvista separate power supply unit ( ridiculously big and heavy ) which had its heater transformer short on the primary side. Both the StudioMaster and the MF were torroidals, which I have not really had a lot of trouble with in the past.

In any event, I was able to obtain manufacturer's direct replacement trannies for all of them, without a problem. In the past, I have not had a problem with Denons, or any others, either ordering direct from the manufacturers, where whoever I'm doing the repair on behalf of has a direct acount, or via third party spares agents, which is the only way that a number of the manufacturers will sell parts anyway, dealer or not.

As far as how long to keep spares for, I'm sure that there did used to be a legal obligation in the UK, but I'm not sure for how long. Whether or not that is still the case, I've no idea. I do, however, feel that manufacturers of 'better' quality equipment, such as Denon are, should keep spares for their products, which are an expensive investment for their owners in the first place, for let's say 10 years. I don't think that is unreasonable. I would be pretty hacked off if I went to get a new starter motor for my 7 year old car, and got told "sorry pal, it's scrap. Part no longer available ..."

Arfa

I can`t rightly say that I have, as I don't do anywhere near as many repairs as I did even just a couple of years ago. The vast majority of faults are solder related now.

Most of the stuff these days is so cheap to buy that no one wants to spend any money on repairs. I have a pile of Behringer stuff that`s scrap simply because parts aren't available to anyone, it seems even their own service depts don't have spares!

The lower end Marshall gear is crap isn't it. I havent seen any of the new generation of Studiomaster gear, but the old stuff was great. I dont have any great confidence in most modern sound equipment these days.

There`s really no excuse for a toroidal transformer primary going s/c all by itself is there?

I`ve really lost interest in doing repairs, seems like far too much hassle for not enough return.

Ohhh don't get me started on the price of spares for cars! At least Dick Turpin wore a mask.

Ron(UK)

A few years ago I bought a 1981 Honda CB750-F that had 5K miles on it for $800.00 US. The bike was and still is in near mint condition. One problem is that the alternator does not charge. Back in 1982 I bought an identical CB750-F new off the lot. The alternator failed in that one too, shorted windings in the rotor. Come to find out that this is a common problem. About 3 years after I bought the used bike, I contacted Honda for a price on the complete alternator assemb. Much to my chagrin the parts are, you guessed it, NLA. Now my options are finding used (and possibly defective) parts on the internet or taking the rotor and stator to a company in a nearby town that can rewind them. I haven't made a decision yet since I've been riding Harleys for a few years now but my girlfriend who can ride wants to ride my Harley and I have let her a few times but would rather put her on the Honda for obvious reasons :) Well at least until I can afford to buy another Harley or she wins the lottery and buys me "the bike of my dreams" like she said she would LoL.

Good rant, but........

have you any proof of government responsibility?

Responsibility for what ? Trying to force eco-friendliness on us all ? Why yes then !! The half-arsed ill thought through RoHS legislation championed by most of the governments in europe will do for a start. Then there's national government provoking local government into introducing eco legislation that leaves ordinary citizens with a fine and a criminal record for accidentally putting a paper envelope into a rubbish receptacle designated to be for glass ... Given those, I think that government has amply demonstrated that they want to get their snouts stuck into all this eco nonsense, so if they are going to do the job, they might as well do it properly, and do something that really *will* make a difference, like legislating on spares availability and pricing.

Arfa

Have it rewound by a good shop. Most of the used ones I have found were crap. Or hit

125 bucks for a new one. Mine came from them. Better than factory and fit like a glove.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Why do you think the problem here is related to daft eco-legislation ?

Graham

Not sure what it's like in the UK but in the US the manufacturer pays tax on items on the shelf so after a short time it isn't worth keeping spares. In the US I believe there is a mandated 7 year parts availability but I don't know if that is from date of introduction or date of end of production though nowadays that may be on the order of months anyway.

I opened a small transformer (not a big Sony or Denon) and found a resistor sized picofuse under the top layer of insulation and replaced it with the same size/value fuse. Would that be a possibility for the Denon and would that pass the legal requirements ? (I suspect not)

GG

If anything went wrong, you'd probably find yourself explaining your actions to a judge.

Ron(UK)

You are missing the point Graham. The problem itself is not due to the eco legislation, but a solution to a lot of electronic equipment going to landfill, or even recycling, *could* be. The point that I was making was that governments have all jumped on the eco-hysteria-save-the-planet bandwagon by legislating in a draconian way on issues that were not much of a problem in the first place, for example lead in solder. Whilst they are doing this - and causing endless further problems for manufacturers and service organisations alike, to say nothing of screwing with the established energy budgets to make and service the stuff, and buggering long established reliability figures for particular technologies - they are totally ignoring the thousands of tons of equipment that are being written off and going to landfill daily, because manufacturers either won't supply parts to repair that equipment, or make the parts so expensive that the item becomes not

*worth* repairing. How easy would it be to legislate on this simple 'solution', and make the manufacturers hold the spares for a particular length of time, and make them sell them to repair organisations for a sensible price that reflects what it has cost them to buy and store them? I write off a couple of DVD players a week, because the manufacturers want more for the laser as a spare part, than the item cost in the first place, or that they just won't supply it as a part. Even if you take into account that electronic equipment going to landfill is on the decline due to recycling initiatives for end-of-life products being put formerly into place (the WEEE Directive), it would still be better, energy budget-wise, to repair rather than recycle.

So that's the point I was making - that I thought it was well 'off', that a 'reputable' major manufacturer like Denon, could no longer supply a vital part such as the mains tranny for an otherwise perfectly servicable item that was only a few years old. Thus, the item was going to become just so much more landfill, or have to be recycled, when governments could quite easily address this 'real' problem, that we all know exists but they seem not to, and knock it on the head.

See what I'm saying now ?

Arfa

Arfa - I agree - however I wonder - big business "usually" has a hand in "buying" votes and forcing some legislation. Are they forcing this sort of action so people must continue to buy "new" as opposed to having repaired? They harp on recycling - yet the programs which "were" in effect around here - died off - and it doesn't seem to be such a big deal. And yet - as you say - here we are dumping tons of products made unrepairable - because of those same groups of people (politicians, etc).

Does that transformer have an internal thermal fuse? I have dug out and replaced a lot of them over the last 20 years on all kinds of electronics.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Hi Michael. Trust you are well ? I guess that it very possibly does. However, it's not at all visible, and 'digging' is probably what would have to be done to get to it. If it was my own, I might go down that road, but as it belongs to a customer of one of the stores that I do work for, I wouldn't dream of doing anything to a designated safety component such as a power transformer, other than replace it with a manufacturer's original.

In these days of responsibility and culpability and litigation and whatever else, I went past the "mend it whatever" stage some years back and now, sad as it sometimes is, for my own protection I never tamper with or sub any parts that might represent a safety issue to either person or property. If the faulty part is no longer available, then that's it as far as I am concerned. It leaves my shop as "Unable to repair due to lack of availability of manufacturer's parts." If the owner then wants to take it up with the manufacturer, or take the item to a back street 'bodge it up' merchant who will get it going for them, and then disappear a few weeks later back to whichever eastern european country he came here from, then that's up to them, and their own responsibility.

I would guess that the situation amongst 'reputable' repair agents must be much the same over there. The US has always been a long way ahead of the UK I think, when it comes to lawyers and the compensation culture ??

Arfa

I've never tried that - I assume then, that you don't need to remove windings? Or is it not quite so easy?

As Michael says, sometimes you can get the old fuse out, particularly if it's just slipped into a card 'pouch' in the windings, but more often than not these days, they seem to be buried deep in the tranny, where you would likely do damage to the winding's insulation integrity, trying to get it out

Arfa