Dishwasher problems

The problems started when I'd load it up, close the door, turn the knob to wash, and at that point you would hear the fill valve solenoid activate, (buzzing noise, the machine would fill, and instead of the motor then running as well, there would be a hum for about 2 seconds followed by what sounded like a "Klixon" overload tripping. After about 40 seconds or so this was followed by another click, (the overload resetting I'm assuming), and then you could repeat the sequence again. The motor however would never turn.

I remover the bottom sprayer and the top of the pump and found that the impeller was jammed. I would have removed the impeller at this point to investigate further but I wasn't able to do that without removing the motor. I don't know what was in there but turning the impeller by hand produced a scraping noise, until whatever was in there was finally driven out. At this point I proceeded very carefully. I closed the door, and made sure that the motor would run, and then opened it and ascertained that there was no longer any obstruction. I then replaced the top of the pump, closed the door, set the timer to wash and then the motor started up and the unit ran a normal wash cycle.

Over the next few weeks this problem repeated two more times. In each instance I was able to again remove the top of the pump and get the stuck impeller freed and "fix" the problem. Seeing as how I'd never found a reason for the gritty stuff that was doing this I just figured that this was grainy soap powder that was collecting in between the impeller and the bottom of the machine and it would eventually completely work it's way out.

The other day I started the machine, listened as it filled, confirmed that I then heard the motor run and left it to finish. When we later opened the door the unit was full of water, the second soap drawer was open, signifying that the machine went through a complete cycle, however it was apparent that the motor had quit somewhere in between.

Now when I try to run it there is an arcing type of noise coming from somewhere in the machine, accompanied by the room lights flickering for a couple of seconds, and then what sounds like the Klixon tripping out again. I should mention as well that throughout all of this I've never smelled anything burning, which is hopefully a good thing.

Perhaps this is wishful thinking but what is the chance that the overload has been repeatedly stressed to the point where it has now failed? I realize that it could also be an arcing door switch or a timer contact as well.

These things always had a little service manual for the repair man in a pouch inside the door. I know that originally it did have one because I used it many years ago to diagnose a bad door switch, however I looked for it but it's missing. Does anyone have any ideas, tips or access to a service manual for this unit by any chance? I had forgotten how much washing dishes by hand really sucks... Thanks, Lenny

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I had that once and it turned out to be a small piece of broken glass that was jamming the pump. It was very hard to find.

On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 12:30:02 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

at has been acting up for several weeks now. This is an old mechanical time r type of machine with no electronics.

o wash, and at that point you would hear the fill valve solenoid activate, (buzzing noise, the machine would fill, and instead of the motor then runni ng as well, there would be a hum for about 2 seconds followed by what sound ed like a "Klixon" overload tripping. After about 40 seconds or so this was followed by another click, (the overload resetting I'm assuming), and then you could repeat the sequence again. The motor however would never turn.

mpeller was jammed. I would have removed the impeller at this point to inve stigate further but I wasn't able to do that without removing the motor. I don't know what was in there but turning the impeller by hand produced a sc raping noise, until whatever was in there was finally driven out. At this p oint I proceeded very carefully. I closed the door, and made sure that the motor would run, and then opened it and ascertained that there was no longe r any obstruction. I then replaced the top of the pump, closed the door, se t the timer to wash and then the motor started up and the unit ran a normal wash cycle.

tance I was able to again remove the top of the pump and get the stuck impe ller freed and "fix" the problem. Seeing as how I'd never found a reason fo r the gritty stuff that was doing this I just figured that this was grainy soap powder that was collecting in between the impeller and the bottom of t he machine and it would eventually completely work it's way out.

t I then heard the motor run and left it to finish. When we later opened th e door the unit was full of water, the second soap drawer was open, signify ing that the machine went through a complete cycle, however it was apparent that the motor had quit somewhere in between.

ewhere in the machine, accompanied by the room lights flickering for a coup le of seconds, and then what sounds like the Klixon tripping out again. I s hould mention as well that throughout all of this I've never smelled anythi ng burning, which is hopefully a good thing.

has been repeatedly stressed to the point where it has now failed? I reali ze that it could also be an arcing door switch or a timer contact as well.

ouch inside the door. I know that originally it did have one because I used it many years ago to diagnose a bad door switch, however I looked for it b ut it's missing. Does anyone have any ideas, tips or access to a service ma nual for this unit by any chance? I had forgotten how much washing dishes b y hand really sucks... Thanks, Lenny

I forgot to mention that the motor impeller now turns freely. Lenny

Have you looked on the Sears parts site?

(...)

Are you sure that whatever was stuck was in the pump rather than in the motor? Offhand, it sounds like a cracked brush. Actually, I'm not even sure if the 665.1661591 motor uses brushes. I couldn't find any details on the motor. However, if it's really old, it probably uses brushes.

Turn off the lights and fire it up in the dark. You should be able to see where the arcing is coming from.

When it was working, did it take forever to drain? If so, the drain pump is probably full of debris and junk. That seems to be the most common "failure".

Incidentally, I've only fixed 5 dishwashers so far. Every time I've tried to be clever and just fix the problem, I end up taking it apart and putting it back together at least three times. To many things can go wrong. The last two dishwashers I fixed, I insisted that I tear it apart, and replace everything that MIGHT have failed or look like they will soon fail. I only had to work on those once. I don't use my Frigidaire much, but it's at least 40+ years old and has been "rebuilt" twice so far.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 12:30:02 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

at has been acting up for several weeks now. This is an old mechanical time r type of machine with no electronics.

o wash, and at that point you would hear the fill valve solenoid activate, (buzzing noise, the machine would fill, and instead of the motor then runni ng as well, there would be a hum for about 2 seconds followed by what sound ed like a "Klixon" overload tripping. After about 40 seconds or so this was followed by another click, (the overload resetting I'm assuming), and then you could repeat the sequence again. The motor however would never turn.

mpeller was jammed. I would have removed the impeller at this point to inve stigate further but I wasn't able to do that without removing the motor. I don't know what was in there but turning the impeller by hand produced a sc raping noise, until whatever was in there was finally driven out. At this p oint I proceeded very carefully. I closed the door, and made sure that the motor would run, and then opened it and ascertained that there was no longe r any obstruction. I then replaced the top of the pump, closed the door, se t the timer to wash and then the motor started up and the unit ran a normal wash cycle.

tance I was able to again remove the top of the pump and get the stuck impe ller freed and "fix" the problem. Seeing as how I'd never found a reason fo r the gritty stuff that was doing this I just figured that this was grainy soap powder that was collecting in between the impeller and the bottom of t he machine and it would eventually completely work it's way out.

t I then heard the motor run and left it to finish. When we later opened th e door the unit was full of water, the second soap drawer was open, signify ing that the machine went through a complete cycle, however it was apparent that the motor had quit somewhere in between.

ewhere in the machine, accompanied by the room lights flickering for a coup le of seconds, and then what sounds like the Klixon tripping out again. I s hould mention as well that throughout all of this I've never smelled anythi ng burning, which is hopefully a good thing.

has been repeatedly stressed to the point where it has now failed? I reali ze that it could also be an arcing door switch or a timer contact as well.

ouch inside the door. I know that originally it did have one because I used it many years ago to diagnose a bad door switch, however I looked for it b ut it's missing. Does anyone have any ideas, tips or access to a service ma nual for this unit by any chance? I had forgotten how much washing dishes b y hand really sucks... Thanks, Lenny

I thought these were induction motors. I didn't think about brushes. From t he ones I've seen at the dump they don't seem to be rated very high in HP. The motor in mine from what I can recall seemed to have about a million wir es on it. No, draining is no problem, when it drains that is.. I did also r ead something about that drain clog issue on another site but I don't think that's a problem here. That's good idea about turning off the lights Jeff. I'll try that tonight. Lenny

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com prodded the keyboard with:

If there was still water in the machine when you opened the door the drain pump was not functioning !

--
Best Regards: 
                      Baron.

On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 12:30:02 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

at has been acting up for several weeks now. This is an old mechanical time r type of machine with no electronics.

o wash, and at that point you would hear the fill valve solenoid activate, (buzzing noise, the machine would fill, and instead of the motor then runni ng as well, there would be a hum for about 2 seconds followed by what sound ed like a "Klixon" overload tripping. After about 40 seconds or so this was followed by another click, (the overload resetting I'm assuming), and then you could repeat the sequence again. The motor however would never turn.

mpeller was jammed. I would have removed the impeller at this point to inve stigate further but I wasn't able to do that without removing the motor. I don't know what was in there but turning the impeller by hand produced a sc raping noise, until whatever was in there was finally driven out. At this p oint I proceeded very carefully. I closed the door, and made sure that the motor would run, and then opened it and ascertained that there was no longe r any obstruction. I then replaced the top of the pump, closed the door, se t the timer to wash and then the motor started up and the unit ran a normal wash cycle.

tance I was able to again remove the top of the pump and get the stuck impe ller freed and "fix" the problem. Seeing as how I'd never found a reason fo r the gritty stuff that was doing this I just figured that this was grainy soap powder that was collecting in between the impeller and the bottom of t he machine and it would eventually completely work it's way out.

t I then heard the motor run and left it to finish. When we later opened th e door the unit was full of water, the second soap drawer was open, signify ing that the machine went through a complete cycle, however it was apparent that the motor had quit somewhere in between.

ewhere in the machine, accompanied by the room lights flickering for a coup le of seconds, and then what sounds like the Klixon tripping out again. I s hould mention as well that throughout all of this I've never smelled anythi ng burning, which is hopefully a good thing.

has been repeatedly stressed to the point where it has now failed? I reali ze that it could also be an arcing door switch or a timer contact as well.

ouch inside the door. I know that originally it did have one because I used it many years ago to diagnose a bad door switch, however I looked for it b ut it's missing. Does anyone have any ideas, tips or access to a service ma nual for this unit by any chance? I had forgotten how much washing dishes b y hand really sucks... Thanks, Lenny

That's right but that's because the motor is not running. Lenny

Usually, the dishwasher motor runs forward to agitate and spray inside the box, then the same motor runs backward to empty the water out. So, they usually are reversed by swapping the brush connections. Examine the motor carefully: if it gets wet, that can cause your difficulties (and it would mean a seal needs replacement).

I have an old Kenmore model 665.1661591 (made by whirlpool) dishwasher that has been acting up for several weeks now. This is an old mechanical timer type of machine with no electronics.

The problems started when I'd load it up, close the door, turn the knob to wash, and at that point you would hear the fill valve solenoid activate, (buzzing noise, the machine would fill, and instead of the motor then running as well, there would be a hum for about 2 seconds followed by what sounded like a "Klixon" overload tripping. After about 40 seconds or so this was followed by another click, (the overload resetting I'm assuming), and then you could repeat the sequence again. The motor however would never turn.

I remover the bottom sprayer and the top of the pump and found that the impeller was jammed. I would have removed the impeller at this point to investigate further but I wasn't able to do that without removing the motor. I don't know what was in there but turning the impeller by hand produced a scraping noise, until whatever was in there was finally driven out. At this point I proceeded very carefully. I closed the door, and made sure that the motor would run, and then opened it and ascertained that there was no longer any obstruction. I then replaced the top of the pump, closed the door, set the timer to wash and then the motor started up and the unit ran a normal wash cycle.

Over the next few weeks this problem repeated two more times. In each instance I was able to again remove the top of the pump and get the stuck impeller freed and "fix" the problem. Seeing as how I'd never found a reason for the gritty stuff that was doing this I just figured that this was grainy soap powder that was collecting in between the impeller and the bottom of the machine and it would eventually completely work it's way out.

The other day I started the machine, listened as it filled, confirmed that I then heard the motor run and left it to finish. When we later opened the door the unit was full of water, the second soap drawer was open, signifying that the machine went through a complete cycle, however it was apparent that the motor had quit somewhere in between.

Now when I try to run it there is an arcing type of noise coming from somewhere in the machine, accompanied by the room lights flickering for a couple of seconds, and then what sounds like the Klixon tripping out again. I should mention as well that throughout all of this I've never smelled anything burning, which is hopefully a good thing.

Perhaps this is wishful thinking but what is the chance that the overload has been repeatedly stressed to the point where it has now failed? I realize that it could also be an arcing door switch or a timer contact as well.

These things always had a little service manual for the repair man in a pouch inside the door. I know that originally it did have one because I used it many years ago to diagnose a bad door switch, however I looked for it but it's missing. Does anyone have any ideas, tips or access to a service manual for this unit by any chance? I had forgotten how much washing dishes by hand really sucks... Thanks, Lenny

Given the age of the machine it would be good practice to strip the motor and replace the shaft seal. The fault should be apparent when you can examine and test the motor.

On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 12:30:02 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

at has been acting up for several weeks now. This is an old mechanical time r type of machine with no electronics.

o wash, and at that point you would hear the fill valve solenoid activate, (buzzing noise, the machine would fill, and instead of the motor then runni ng as well, there would be a hum for about 2 seconds followed by what sound ed like a "Klixon" overload tripping. After about 40 seconds or so this was followed by another click, (the overload resetting I'm assuming), and then you could repeat the sequence again. The motor however would never turn.

mpeller was jammed. I would have removed the impeller at this point to inve stigate further but I wasn't able to do that without removing the motor. I don't know what was in there but turning the impeller by hand produced a sc raping noise, until whatever was in there was finally driven out. At this p oint I proceeded very carefully. I closed the door, and made sure that the motor would run, and then opened it and ascertained that there was no longe r any obstruction. I then replaced the top of the pump, closed the door, se t the timer to wash and then the motor started up and the unit ran a normal wash cycle.

tance I was able to again remove the top of the pump and get the stuck impe ller freed and "fix" the problem. Seeing as how I'd never found a reason fo r the gritty stuff that was doing this I just figured that this was grainy soap powder that was collecting in between the impeller and the bottom of t he machine and it would eventually completely work it's way out.

t I then heard the motor run and left it to finish. When we later opened th e door the unit was full of water, the second soap drawer was open, signify ing that the machine went through a complete cycle, however it was apparent that the motor had quit somewhere in between.

ewhere in the machine, accompanied by the room lights flickering for a coup le of seconds, and then what sounds like the Klixon tripping out again. I s hould mention as well that throughout all of this I've never smelled anythi ng burning, which is hopefully a good thing.

has been repeatedly stressed to the point where it has now failed? I reali ze that it could also be an arcing door switch or a timer contact as well.

ouch inside the door. I know that originally it did have one because I used it many years ago to diagnose a bad door switch, however I looked for it b ut it's missing. Does anyone have any ideas, tips or access to a service ma nual for this unit by any chance? I had forgotten how much washing dishes b y hand really sucks... Thanks, Lenny

Last night I pulled the access panel at the bottom in the front and with th e room lights out turned the timer to on. There was a brief shower of spark s that came from the left rear of the machine followed by the familiar clic k.So it seems that what I've been hearing apparently isn't a thermal protec tor for the motor after all because it's not mounted on the motor. And the "click" afterwards rather than just being an arcing connection suggests so me kind of toasted circuit breaker. Hopefully it's just that. I'm going to pull the washer out today and have a better look.

I'm going to guess that I installed this machine between 1997 and 2000. It' s a Kenmore "Ultrawash", equivalent to some similar no electronics Whirlpoo l model. In fact at the time I think that it was if not the last, then one of the last no electronics models available. That was what sold me on it.

Let me see what this looks like once I get it out. I think that I should be able to manually fill it and work on it out on the deck. I'll let you guys know. Lenny

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com prodded the keyboard with:

The drain pump and the wash pump are two separate motors !

--
Best Regards: 
                      Baron.

Captain Video said this one had no electronics, and a mechanical timer. So, it has to be SERIOUSLY old! All the old ones had a single motor/pump that was reversed to do both functions. Even our much newer one with electronic controls only has one pump/motor assembly.

Jon

Possibly the Klixon protector got fried the last time this happened. Also, there may be a run capacitor that has failed. But, it may have also fried the motor when it seized up the last time and noboy was watching it.

The fact that it turns freely now inidcates something else has gone bad.

Jon

Hi Jon,

Jon Elson prodded the keyboard with:

assembly.

Ours is a Philips "Wirlpool" dishwasher, UK made, it has a separate drain pump. The main motor is a two pole induction one.

The only one that I've ever seen with a single motor would have been

30 years old or more, and that had a weird rubber flap valve with a peg on it that was moved in one direction or the other by the impellor blades themselves. The valve opened the drain port when pushed one way and blocked it off when pushed the other.

The problem with this arangement was that if debris held the flap away from the drain port, was that the machine would very slowly empty itself.

--
Best Regards: 
                      Baron.