Bose Wave Radio Revisited ...

I have no particular desire to 'set light' again to this highly emotive and contentious subject, but having just had one on the bench, I feel that I've got to have one last stab at defending the little beast ...

It's only problem was that it was a bit iffy at playing CDs, due to a worn laser, which was literally 5 minutes work to replace, due to the simple and serviceman-friendly construction that is employed. It looked as though it had given stirling service over a number of years to its owner, judging by the amount of dust in it. There was no indication that the owner was in any way displeased with the way that the unit worked, or sounded.

Once it was fixed, I took the additional time to give it a subjective evaluation, just to see if I was wrong in my belief that these Waves *do* work well. You may recall that when I was arguing this with a group contributor a couple of weeks back, I contended that the sound was "stunning both in its overall quality and spatial definition", a statement that I was later castigated for, despite trying in as many ways as I knew how, to qualify it as being compared to similar sized portable and semi-portable items from other manufacturers, and not multi-thousand dollar 'reference' systems with $11,000 speakers on the end. So let me try again with regard to the word "stunning". I used it in a colloquial way rather than literally, to mean 'enough to take me by surprise'. I accept that 'American' English tends to be a bit more literal than 'British English', which may have led to my intended meaning being misconstrued.

So, what did I find this time? Well, despite the howls from the usual suspects to the contrary, I would still like to compare this to portable units, as it is a similar weight, has similarly spaced speakers of similar size, is overall of a similar size, has similar functionality, and runs from direct line power, as most general portables also do, and as most owners actually run them, as the cost of putting 8 D cells in them is prohibitive. The only thing it lacks is a carrying handle, to make the task of moving it from room to room, just that little bit easier.

I played a variety of CDs in it, from Pavarotti to The Scissor Sisters, and sorry folks, but I am going to stick to my guns on this one.

Compared to similar units - that's not stacking systems, not reference systems, not single or multi-piece bookshelf systems, not the best mini hifi that Electrical Barn Inc can offer - I still believe that the Wave Radio delivers superb sound. It might not give you the best (perceived) sound quality per buck, but by the same token, I don't believe that the claims made by Bose for this item, are too far out of line, allowing for marketing hype, that we discussed at length, last time.

The sound that it delivered on all of the material that I tried on it, was crisp, full bodied, well-defined spatially - within the obvious constraints of speakers separated by only a few inches, but remember that we're still not comparing to anything *other* than similarly sized units - and most certainly didn't lack in bass, given that the drivers are only 3" or whatever. In fact, when I wound the wick up, the bass shook the bench, and I could quite clearly 'feel' the bass punching me in the chest. The amount of air that the speakers were shifting, was enough to blow out a candle. Now I know that I am not an audiophile, but 35 years of repairing hifi has left me with an ear that's not too bad, and even with the volume elevated to a level that would be ridiculous in most listening situations, those same little speakers gave a very creditable performance in terms of perceived distortion. I would have said that the unit would withstand 'party' use without any problem.

So where am I now on it all ? Just about exactly where I was before, I think, and that is that I still feel that the Wave Radio delivers basically what it claims, and could hold its own against bigger better systems in

*some* instances. I have no more or less interest in it as a product, or in Bose as a company, than I did before. I still don't think that for me, Bose products are particularly good value for money, but then neither is a Ferrari, or an Armani suit, unless you've got sufficient money that it doesn't matter to you. I don't believe now, any more than I did before, that Bose as a company, set out to lie to and deceive the public.

Understand that this is all a personal opinion, including my feelings about the sound of the Wave Radio, and does not address any of their other products. Despite what some on here might believe, we all have a right to our opinions, defended or not.

OK then, get your Doc Martens on, and start kicking ... d;~}

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily
Loading thread data ...

Mr. Daily, I think you're deliberately ignoring the issue. It's rather like defending Thomas Kinkaid's wretchedly awful paintings by saying you like his brushwork.

The issue is not so much the sound quality of the Wave radio, but the way Bose promotes it. I assure you, if Bose did not advertise the Wave radio the way it does -- with gross misrepresentations and outright lies -- we would not be discussing it here. The Wave would simply be one other overpriced mediocrity.

If a business misrepresents or lies about its products or services, those who know better have an obligation to speak the truth. Bose has no special right to be protected from criticism.

As I've said before, most people are ignorant, not cloth-eared. Give them a choice between mediocre sound and good sound, and they'll generally choose the latter. (I know, because I've seen it. *) Bose's advertising and marketing is designed to reduce the probability the customer will ever make such a comparison.

The dealers are guilty, too. They're not allowed to discount Bose, and they're obliged to demonstrate Bose products in a way that complements the customer's prejudice to buy Bose. When you make a guaranteed 40% (I assume) on each sale, and you need to turn a profit to stay in business, the temptation to carry mediocre products from a lying manufacturer must be overwhelming. **

I believe Bose's product design and marketing are directed at women. Women don't like hardware in "their" living rooms. The smaller the product, the better. And women seem to have a strange inability to operate any kind of mechanical or electronic device. So the Bose's simple remote control is appealing. ***

Hell, man, I ain't buying _nothin'_ that was designed for a _woman_.

The Wave probably has better drivers than those in most all-in-one portables. But they don't work well, because they should be mounted on the top of the radio. You can demonstrate this for yourself simply by tilting up the radio a few inches. You should hear a big reduction in overall coloration. If Bose is so knowledgable about audio, why wasn't this obvious flaw caught and corrected?

Sorry, no. BOSE LIES. And that needs to be repeated over and over.

and

judging

You mean it hadn't been thrown against a concrete wall in a fit of rage when the owner realized he'd spent too much for too little?

  • 40+ years ago I bought a KLH Model 11 FM portable stereo. My parents had a Westinghouse fruitwood console. (My father worked for Westinghouse and the console was one of a number of gifts he received for selling a lot of refrigerators.) It wasn't bad-sounding, but hardly hi-fi. They _immediately_ commented on the superior sound of the KLH, which had a lower retail price, and used a single 3" driver on each channel. The KLH was _extremely_ difficult to set up -- you had to attach the power cord and connect the speakers, an effort requiring a near-genius IQ. Another example... A few years ago a friend asked me to help him pick out a hi-fi system. He'd just bought a discontinued Adcom power amp, which had (and still has) a good reputation. I decided the best approach was not to tell him what to buy, but what _not_ to buy. That way, he'd get something he liked, and I wouldn't have to talk him into something that didn't really appeal to him. Well... He wound up with a discontinued Krell preamp -- and Martin-Logan electrostatic speakers. It wasn't an expensive system (even if he'd paid full price for the electronics, which he didn't), but it sounded _good_. It was one of those rare combinations of "pleasing" and "accurate". It was an excellent choice, and he made it all by himself.
** When I worked at Barclay Recording & Electronics 30 years ago, the owner told us we could carry any product line we wanted, if we thought we could sell it. As a result, we took on several manufacturers whose products we were enthusiastic about, and could honestly promote. *** Almost 50 years ago, Poplular Electronics published an construction project for a device that would turn on an amplifier when the turntable was turned on. (There have been commercial versions of such products.) The author admitted he designed it because his wife (or mother -- I forget which) was incapable of remembering that, in order to play a record, you also had to turn on the amplifier.
Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Boy oh boy. You really do have a jaundiced view don't you ? You really just can't help yourself. You make a rational (in your mind) post, and then go and throw that remark in. It has no justification whatsoever, given that I went to the trouble of stating that the owner was in no way displeased with his purchase. It ranks alongside the first remark that you made before, when you said that anyone asking for help with a Bose, was asking for trouble. And just so you know, I don't believe that all your ludicrously convoluted arguments actually did answer the basic question of what exactly you meant by that remark, except that he was likely to get a baseless kicking from people such as yourself, who believe themselves to be superior in the esoteric world of high fidelity sound.

And yes, I know it's 'sterling'. There's no need to put your pedantic "[sic]" in. That was a typo because I deal regularly with a person whose name is Stirling, spelt like that, and type his name several times a week.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Arfa's post was his opinion about the sound and not a soapbox for you to stand upon and spew about Boses's lies. I agree 100% with Arfa, the sound is superb given the size of the unit. Sorry you're obsessed over the way Bose promoted it but that wasn't what this post was about.

Reply to
Meat Plow

It doesn't matter what his post was about, because his post has nothing to do with the real issue -- Bose lies.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

just

with

What does whether the customer likes or dislikes the product have to do with its quality? You brought up the point.

As for my rationality... Feel free (seriously) to attack my points, one by one. You're going to have a hard time contra-dicting them.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Not.. _The_ Stirling? ex GP driver and all round good egg?

Ron(UK)

Reply to
Ron(UK)

It proves nothing to anyone to argue over material objects .

I like those Altec IM7 ipod speakers . They really sound nice too .

Reply to
Ken G.

Sorry Ron, but nah! as they say. This Stirling is a little Scottish lad who runs the spares department at a company that I do work for. And it's his last name, not first. How's life up there at Lune Valley, anyway. I see that you are currently not carrying out any service work. Nothing serious wrong, I hope ?

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

"To each his own," said the old lady as she kissed the cow.

--
One meter, to within 0.0125% accuracy (off by just under .005 inches):
        Three feet
        Three inches
        Three eights of an inch
Reply to
clifto

What I'm saying is not an opinion. It's fact. The Bose Wave radio is mediocre, especially when held up against the standard of Bose's claims for it. It's overpriced, because there are cheaper products that perform as well or better. And Bose does not speak the truth about its products. (I consider that lying, given Bose's stated claims of engineering expertise.) That's it. These are all objective, factual, provable statements.

As friendly professor Peter Schickele so famously said, "Truth is truth. You can't have opinions about truth."

Businesses rarely sue each other over product claims, probably because they think it isn't worth the trouble, and the money would be better spent misrepresenting their own products.

Rather than take Bose to court, I would prefer to find some magazine to purchase all of Bose's products -- plus competitive products from other companies -- so I could thoroughly test them for a printed review. This would be much more effective than suing them.

Mr. Daily, you need to look to your own thinking. You think that one opinion is as good as any other. It isn't. And you think that because you believe something, it is necessarily true. (It took me a long, long time to grow out of that. In fact, it took a long time for me to recognize that I -- and most people -- actually thought that way.)

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

guilty

totally

transistor

  1. If a person is enticed by an ad claiming (or implying) that product B is "absolutely the best", and they neglect to confirm this by comparing it with compare-able products, then they are foolish.
  2. Sonically, the Wave is of mediocre quality. As to the build quality, I can't speak, but I assume Bose products are reasonably reliable. However, there is that Web page where someone opens up one of their home-theater systems and attacks it for poor driver quality and cabinet build.
  3. Given its price, the Bose is poor value for the money. If I thought otherwise, I would probably own one. (I might add that I've heard the Cambridge SoundWorks 740, and was not impressed.)

formatting link

Note the wide range of opinions about its sound.

formatting link

Note CSW's claim that "our SoundWorks Radio CD 745i reproduces music at its best". Hello? "Best" is an _absolute_ comparative. It's as good as my Parasound-biamped Apogee Divas? Or QUADs?

This CSW product is _another_ overpriced mediocrity -- and it's not from Bose. With a bit of careful shopping, you can assemble a true component system -- with separate speakers, receiver, and CD player -- that outclasses the 740 in every way. Oh, it won't fit on your desktop? Well, who gives a damn? Bose claims their products are as good as a roomful of components.

By the way, I have Mission M71i speakers in my bedroom, for casual listening. They originally cost $225 a pair, and you can't believe how good they are. I actually _enjoy_ listening to them, and I don't feel that way about most inexpensive products. You could easily find a $100 receiver and $75 DVD/CD player to round out the system at $400.

  1. I've never heard anyone claim the Wave was inferior to "a flea-market transistor radio".

Bose is almost universally reviled because they make mediocre products and lie about them.

35 years ago, Bose manufactured a line of wretched-sounding direct-radiating speakers -- I think it was called Compusound -- that dealers could sell for a much lower price, while letting the customer know they were made by Bose. I think we sold one pair. They were awful.

Even 35 years ago, it wasn't horribly difficult to make a modestly priced speaker that had reasonably flat, uncolored sound. (Infinity had a $99 speaker, the POS-1 (yes!) that was nothing short of amazing.) Bose's piece o' junk was intended to trade on the sucess of their other products, rather than provide a high-quality product.

Bose might have had another motive. As I write this, I'm reminded of a story my father used to tell me. He claimed that, back in the '30s, Gillette manufactured a poor-quality electric shaver, in an attempt to make electric shavers look bad. It's possible that Bose deliberately designed and sold poor direct-radiating speakers to make their own direct/reflecting products look better.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

This is indeed a verifiable statement. Simply ask listeners to compare a system that actually delivers such sound with the Bose.

There are other claims, such as their TV ads explicitly stating that the Bose produces "life-like" sound, and is sonically comparable to larger, more-complex systems. These are easily demolished untruths.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Lush Room Filling Sound is a Subjective observation and therefore an opinion. There is no scale or measurement for Lush Room Filling Sound and no matter how many people you ask it is still an opinion. Say I read a book and say that is an excellent book, though someone else reads it and says it is terrible. Well I want to prove the book is a good book so I let readers compare it to another book. The results will be an opinion no matter who reads it or how many people read it, even if they all say it is excellent.

Reply to
Michael Kennedy

no

and

I can set up a system that almost everyone would agree had "lush, room-filling sound". It's not difficult to do.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Apples and oranges again ...

Oh dear oh dear. That's called 'tongue in cheek' or 'wry' humour. It is not meant to be taken literally, and the fact that you have, possibly reveals a lot about your declared position on all of this ...

That's just 'conspiracy theory'. 70 years ago, maybe, but it's probably just urban myth anyway, and not something that I believe you could get away with these days. And anyway, as it's just a "claim" made by your father, it has no relevance to this discussion, where you appear to be absolutely driven down the road of fact and truth.

I don't propose that you try and sue Bose yourself (as you have suggested in another reply in this thread). If you did, you would probably finish up ruined. But by the same token, you can't keep making these claims, without having the balls to try to do something about them. You say (elsewhere) that you would like to get a mag or whatever to do a full review of all of Bose's products, and expose them for the liars that they are. So GET OFF YOUR ARSE and do something. You can bleat on here all you like, but that is all it's ever going to be.

You have said that you consider your experience justifies you being an anti Bose evangelist, and you consider it to be your moral duty to advise people who know less, of just what fools they are making of themselves, by considering purchasing Bose products. Given that you occupy this moral high-ground, and clearly consider it to be your mission in life to expose Bose as liars and cheats, I would urge you to 'test the water' with some of these magazines, or indeed with whatever serves in the U.S. as a consumer protection agency, and see if anyone else out there *who actually matters*, shares your view, and is prepared to join with you to do something about it.

Until such time as you can do this, and report back on your results, there is little point in your continuing to post endless neatly numbered lists of 'proofs' for your beliefs. It really does remind me of when you get a couple of JWs at the front door, who have carefully prepared and rehearsed 'proofs' of every line in the bible ...

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Thanks for your concern, but it`s nothing medical or anything like that. It`s just not really economically viable any more, and I was getting brassed off with it - it can be frustrating at times as you know

- so I decided to take a break and concentrate on other things that are more fun. I still do the more interesting jobs, but it`s more fun using the equipment than mending it. Strangely, since giving it up, I`ve been offered far more work than I had been getting for years.

Ron(UK)

Reply to
Ron(UK)

I would not own Bose even if the alternative was nothing, as nothing is better than what comes out of their creations.

However, that is my OPINION. It ain't nohow necessarily a fact. I have heard their wave radios in both their stores (aka "ideal" locations") and in several household locations, including that of our neighbor upstate. I found them universally unlistenable. Given the alternatives available to me, I would not even purchase one even if it came up at that proverbial yard-sale/flea market.

And at the same time, it give my neighbor upstate considerable pleasure every day. It fits where she needs it to fit, and she did not grudge the price even though she is not wealthy by any means.

William has a bug up his fundament about Bose. I agree that their advertizing displays questionable ethics - but they are no worse than anyone else pandering to the great unwashed and better than the average vinyl window salesman... . And unlike the average vinyl window, their product might last a while relative to similar alternatives.

No kicking intended, but Bose can be a hot-button issue as well as a pretty serious boil on the soft underbelly of High Fidelity. In the immortal works of Abraham Lincoln:

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

Best let it go at that.

Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA

Reply to
pfjw

Know what you mean. It gets a little harder and a little less predictable year on year, I think. A few years back, I lost a large contract from a friend of mine, due to him closing his service operation down (it was big, but he was fed up of it) to concentrate on his 'specialist' satellite equipment supply and installation business. Which is, as it happens, still going strong, and causing him a lot less hassle than service was. Anyway, at that time, we were just in the process of selling one of our other businesses, which my wife ran, so we banked the money from it, went on holiday, and took a year virtually off. After that time, I had reached the point where I had a lot of potential work again, so I started back up. That year of 'rest' did us both a power of good, so if you are able to do the same, I would recommend it.

It's a bit quiet on service again at the moment, but we have another business run by the wife, which keeps us going, so I guess we will continue to get by.

Glad that there's nothing 'serious' wrong, anyway.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Yes, now that is valid input. You have an opinion and you accept that it is that. It's not diametrically opposed to mine, but neither is it aligned. I accept your opinion for being that. You have reasons for that opinion, and accept that others have theirs, such as your neighbour, who is fine with her Bose. You think that they sound terrible, your friend thinks hers is great. I happen to think that they produce very acceptable sound, given what they are. I never said that they are good value for money, as I don't particularly think that they are. In the final analysis, it is, as you say, all just opinion, and I consider it unfair on a company, whether they are indeed good or bad, to kick them in public, based on nothing more than an opinion, and then not have the conviction to take it further.

Thank you for your sensible comments and observations, Peter.

Reply to
Arfa Daily

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.