Another stupid question

Fascinating.

What's interesting about this patent is that the head moves in a circle, while the /tape/ moves in a helix. This is "backwards" to the way modern helical-scan systems work.

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Helical scan is simply a re-orientation of the head wheel and a change in the tape path. Take your quad head drum and tip it to almost perpendicular to the tape path rather than parallel to it, increase its size and you have a helical machine. Not a very big leap conceptually. The drum is still phase locked to the video, the drum generates a pulse recorded longitudinally as control track. Interestingly Ampex managed to get the AVR-1 quad machine to play with no control track and even re-generate a new control track for the machines that required it (all the rest).

G=B2

I have to agree with Jeff, I lived the first 18 years of my life without a TV, and claim it has not distorted my personality, thus you do not NEED a DVR. However, you DESIRE a means of recording TV broadcasts. That can be accomplished by three methods - VCR, DVR (either stand alone or a computer running something like Myth-TV), or DVD recorder.

It's been over 10 years since I used a VCR for time-shifting. At that time you set the time it should start and stop recording and tuned it to the channel. Perhaps things have advanced since then.

Certainly with the switch to digital broadcasts you must either have a separate converter box, or a recorder that incorporates an ATSC tuner. Using a recorder (VCR, DVR, or DVD) that records the signal without any analog conversion is preferable - the data stream is compressed using the MPEG-4 algorithm.

A quick search for VCRs with ATSC tuners brought up a number of them, all incorporating a DVD recorder. Typical prices were in the $250-$300 range; a bit rich for my wallet. It also brought up the TiVo TCD746320 Premiere DVR at under $80, but that requires a monthly subscription, something to be viewed with caution. And it brought up the brite-View BV-980H Digital Antenna HD DVR for $200, no subscription required. With a 320 Gig hard drive it can hold up to 39 hours of HD programming, or 450 hours of SD programming. That's equivalent to 75 VHS tapes.

PlainBill

unsophisticated,

Not if you disagree with the "moral majority".

Still the best place (in the Western world) for economic oppression. Still the best place for the "religious" to deny others their rights.

There's a simple reason why this country is so "successful". Since the invention of agriculture and animal husbandry (7000+ years ago), we've lived in a world dominated by economics. The US provides a relatively unfettered "playground" for economic development. Because humans view economic success as the most-important thing in life, they naturally gravitate toward the US. But, ultimately, economic freedom (more or less) is ALL we have to offer. Our society is vulgar and spiritually dead.

Something is wrong. This is Usenet and nobody ever agrees with anyone, especially me.

Nicely done. What convinced me to get a TV was:

1. The price. It was free.
2. I was bribed to proof and edit some training videos on Unix.
3. I felt culturally deprived. Friends would mention movies and actors. I had no idea what they were talking about.

The limiting factor on home made DVR construction is the noise of the fan. I've built various no-fan schemes in the past. They worked but all had their limitations and complications. These days, it's easy enough with SBC (single board computah). I have a DVR integrated into my DirecTV receiver, which makes an external DVR a marginal improvement.

Yep. I can connect to the DirecTV web pile and search the program guide using the user interface from hell. When I find what I want, usually more by luck than by intent, I can command my home DVR to record the show. DirecTV sends the commands to the DVR via the satellite. Also works via my iPhone. There are also some built in algorithms for recording regularly scheduled shows (e.g. Mythbusters) and automagically discarding ancient recordings to make room. There's also an ethernet connection and associated PC program, that allows playing shows on a PC that are stored on the DVR, or copying the show from the DVR to the PC. DRM is epidemic, but not too horrible for home use. I have plenty of complaints and improvement suggestions, but basically, it works and does roughly what I want.

That's how the built in DVR works.

The DirecTV DVR cost me nearly zero when I first signed up about 5 years ago. I've replaced it twice for $100 each time. There's a $5/month charge for the DVR, which is mostly to pay for the program guide.

I have a VCR that will record 1280 hrs of security camera stuff per tape. Duz that count?

I have an old Tivo 2 DVR with a lifetime subscription. NTSC video only and useless for satellite or cable. It's going on eBay when I have time to make sure it works and it's updated. I also has a Philips something DVR and DVD burner combo. Plenty of DVR's but nothing that's better than the one built into the DirecTV receiver.

Me, me, me... I believe in "Learn by Destroying" which does not include getting my science from the TV. I read plenty of non-fiction.

Sniff...

Correct. If we had a single world government, it might become too efficient and effective for the good of the governed. Better to let the governments fight among each other than to direct their attention at the people.

Right. The planet would be a nice place without people to mess things up. I once had a college professor announce that the college would be a nice place to work were it not for the students.

That's difficult to believe considering the large number of books published yearly. The books go somewhere besides libraries and recycling centers.

Ampex used both. 'Quad' was used on their 2" machines. Helical scan was used on their 1" machines.

The Cartrivision system was developed by AVCO, at what later became the Cincinnati, Electronics plant on Glendale-Milford road. The prototypes and test fixtures were still on site a few years later, when I did QA on the PRC-77 for CE. There were two types of cartridges. One you could record on, and rewind. The other was play once only, then the cartridge had to be returned to where you rented it so it could be rewound on a separate machine before it could be rented out again.

While Masterson's claims are drawn quite narrowly, Holt's first claim covers the "modern helical-scan system" of which you speak.

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I looked up the RCA / Masterson patent. It was submitted in 1959 and issued in 1964 - not 1950.

G=B2

And happens to be just about the closest thing to a free existence, while still enjoying the benfits of modern society, on the planet.

(Possible exception - Australia?)

I would agree about "vulgar" (Jerry Springer, anyone?). The price we pay, I suppose.

Mark Z.

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This is quite clever trolling, as its patent idiocy demands a response. I'm referring to US Patent 2,773,120, applied for in 1950 and issued in 1956.

Well, I don't feel particularly oppressed. In the distant past, the US didn't bother with the guild system, which was a European exclusive. Our labor unions were run by organized crime, which was somewhat of an improvement over being dominated by the government. In the US, we offer the ability to fail and lose everything, while the European philosophy seems to be to provide a "cushion" in the event of failure. We can still open new banks, while in Europe, it's almost impossible. Basically, you can still get rich (quick) in the US. The opportunity to do so in Europe was replaced with a socialist failure cushion. Each system has its benefits and supporters. The jury is still out to determine which is best.

Yep. We invented robber barons, buying on margin, stock market manipulation, price fixing, conspicuous consumption, junk bonds, sub-prime loans, and creative finance. Our exploitation of various foreign countries by plundering their resources is a fairly good emulation of the British example in England and South Africa. Opportunities for exploitation, err... investment, are still available:

"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." Matthew 26:41 Writing a moral code is easy. We started with 10 commandment and ended up with 613 rules and regulations.

Last time I looked at the IRS code, it was monsterous. That which does not grow, soon dies.

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Distant past, nothing. There are very few jobs in Germany that one can hold without formal structured training, passing a test, holding a certificate, with mandated continuing education to keep it.

Thanks for that PlainBill, clearly I was not making any comment about professional VCRs being invented in the anywhere, just mass acceptance of VCRs as consumer items: This is borne out by the existence of readily available Sony U-Matic machines before the Philips 1500. But though my next door neighbour had one for consumer use, they were hardly a consumer item! (and had no consumer features)

I note that no one has answered the question about what on earth those USB ports on (eg) Motorola cable boxes in the States can be used for? Are they really disabled?

Still

We need more of that in this country. There'd probably be less crime and fewer unemployed. Such a system would reduce the need for immigration.

I really wouldn't know, I've been using DirecTV for over a decade and the last cable box I had didn't have a USB port. I CAN make several intelligent guesses, however.

A possible use is it allows the cable company to provide (and charge for) a 'premium' service that allows recording shows onto an extenal hard drive.

A less likely one is that it is to allow a firmware upgrade, diagnostic, or similar function that the cable provider does not want to perform over the cable.

But most likely the designers said "You know, we could ad a USB port to this thing for $2.18 per box, marketing could try to sell it as a feature to the cable companies for $15 a box, and when they balk marketing will discount the price to $5.00, so we still make a profit."

PlainBill

Yep. The US has its own version of the guild system. However, it's generally ineffective mostly because NBC (nobody cares):

Strictly speaking, I can't call myself an engineer in California because the state does not have an P.E. industrial exemption (unless I work for an electrical or communications utility). It's never been an issue except when I've played expert witness in depositions.

I doubt this one, even the non-dvr models have it.

This is more likely to me though.

Actually it's probably how it was loaded with the firmware from the factory.

The original Apple TV had one (well so does the newer ATV2 but a micro one) that was disabled. That model had an internal drive and ones logic would be that the port was for external storage, but after it was jailbroken, there wasn't anything in the os at all relating to the usb function.

Later on it was discovered the port was polled at boot and one could use a common usb thumb drive to boot from.

My impression is, those things were made blank as a fart off the assembly line and somewhere before it was put into a box, a usb cable was jacked in and gave it life, the firmware, the os image on the hard drive, then probably a quick self-test.

So I'm saying it was a real time saver with manufacturing the thing, after that, was intended to become a unused port.

I think the non-dvr Motorola cable boxes are the same, the usb port was used to load the initial firmware/configuration and that was it.

-bruce snipped-for-privacy@ripco.com