Another reason to hate CFLs ...

Not only possible but likely. The front-end sensors, the cone cells, can differ slightly between individuals in the concentration and molecular structure of the photo-pigments that trigger the cell to fire when a photon is absorbed, resulting in slightly different response curves.

Even cooler -- most birds, as well as some other critters, have a distinct fourth color receptor.

--
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA

and

It would be very odd if what I call "blue" looks like what you would call "red", as most human beings are chemically and neurologically essentially identical.

However, I noticed many years ago that my eyes differ slightly. One has a (very) slightly "cooler" or "bluer" balance. Why, I don't know.

In theory, yes. In fact, most likely not. There are variations in our other senses that are much easier to quantify, for example, pain thresholds and scent thresholds, as well as variations in perception of audio due to ear shape, etc.

The example, though, was meant to amplify and clarify the idea, rather than necessarily as a solid example. A difference in perception might be more subtle, like the difference between burgundy and crimson, or such.

Yes it's a transition thing. Halogen immediately and then supposedly a smooth transition to CFL. I would assume if designed correctly and decent quality parts used that it should suffer no quicker death than a traditional CFL.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

Oddly enough, they can see magnetic lines of force.

Jeff

I've seen two office refrigerators end up in the trash because secretaries thought they could use letter openers and a hammer to carefully break the ice up. Why doesn't your unit have a timed defrost on it like most home units do?

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

Hello all,

I have certainly observed issues with color spectrum and actual life vs. claimed life on these lams, as many of you have already noted.

I've also notice that there is a huge variation in turn on characteristics and color, so unlike traditional filament lamps, which are pretty consistent from brand to brand, there is a huge variation in the CFL's

What no one here seemed to mention is the fall off of light output from the CFL's as they age. I've noticed that if you want the claimed light output from these, you probably need to replace them every 750-100 hours or so, again with a huge variation from model to model. A Philips lamp catalog I once looked at failed to list the light output at the end of the rated bulb life, something that was listed for virtually every other type of lamp in the catalog.

I find the CFL's a poor choice in an area where I'm going to read or work, but just fine in hallways where you just don't want to walk into things. I was quite surprised when one CFL failed after a year (likely

2000 hours in my application and I replaced it with an identical lamp form the same package and noted the HUGE difference in brightness.

I feel that the quoted lumens of the CFL's is for a 'young' bulb and that the fall off is quite rapid. If I had to take a guess on my hallway light, I would say that at 2000 hours the lamp was down to 40% of its original output.

I have been using LED lamps in some 'high hat' (PAR30 flood light) applications in my home. Expensive but worth it.

Regards, Tim Schwartz Bristol Electronics

I didn't read every message in this thread so sorry if this has been brought up already...

Look like others share in your observation with startup times.

-bruce snipped-for-privacy@ripco.com

You might think that, but in many cases you would be wrong. When I recently replaced a year old Osram brand CFL with another of the same wattage, I noticed immediately it was much brighter.

Then I looked at the old lamp and the box for the new one. The old one was rated 2/3s of the lumens of the new one.

So in this case, and will all of the osram lamps we bought that day (we bought several in different sizes and wattages) they were much brighter by design than the ones just a year old.

What I want to see is a long necked refrigerator bulb. :-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order 
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

GE dumping CFLs in the UK.? Supermarket and separately a hardware barn with GE 11W and 15W CFL at 10 pence (15 cents ) each. So broke into a 15W one

240V, 144 mA FLE15TBXT3/827 10Y PbF desolders easy enough on the bayonet buttons. This time 3.3uF , 400V, 105 deg C and 2x BU103A so whatever current rating of BU102 the BU103A is likely 33 percent higher, still TO92. Much same else inc 32V diac

I thought there was some government subsidy for them, and a tax credit to the power companies if they give them out (with possibly a requirment to).

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order 
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

with

the

order

it. :-)

When can I claim my nominal cost utility-friendly fridge ? from the same economics Monitors mains f and drops out/fails to come on when f below a threshold

Agreed. But that wasn't what I said. (See above.)

Halogen lamps don't "like" being turned on and off a lot. They need to come up to full temperature for an extended time so the "recycling" effect can kick in. Bulbs operated at a temperature slightly /below/ this point will fail quickly. (I saw this at a friend's house.)

The "right" fixture (a subjective thing) can help immensely.

This is a small 4 cubic foot Kenmore fridge. About $120 to replace. There are no refill valves and no easy way to refill. The "coils" are a flat plate that fits under the freezer section. It will soon make a tolerable paint storage cabinet somewhere in the yard.

I've been doing the screwdriver and hammer defrosting trick for about

35 years without problems. I'm not sure why I failed this time, but it probably had something to do with spending too much time on the computer and on Usenet.

True. My understanding is that the reason for the vacuum pump cycle is to prevent any refrigerant from escaping into the atmosphere. In the days before we discovered ecology, a purge cycle, where the refrigerant pressure was used to purge the system, was deemed adequate.

I have no idea, but with I'm sure that there's a law or rule designating everything I'm doing as illegal. For example, I'm required to remove the door from a disused refrigerator to prevent the neighborhood kids from climbing inside and locking the door. Never mind that fridges with locking doors went out of style in the 1960's.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Nope. It's a small bar type 4 cu ft fridge. It doesn't even have a light inside. My previous giant monster fridge had one of those self-defrosting features. I disabled it when I discovered that a substantial part of my monthly electric bill was dedicated to defrosting. The water bed followed soon after.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Pain in the ass to defrost a side by side where the evaporator is hidden behind plastic in the freezer. I know I've fixed a neighbor's 3 times over the past ten years. It's got three heating elements in glass tubes that corrode and break. Each time the evap was solid ice and probably took as much power to thaw as it would if it was operating normally.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

I created my own "transition" solution some time ago. Use a 2 bulb fixture with an LED bulb and a CFL. The first one I installed was in an entry way where full brightess isn't as important as instant response. The LED lights imediately and the CFL follows in a fraction of a second. Even a small LED bulb provides enough light that the person entering doesn't repeatedly toggle the switch because the light didn't come on instantly (the CFL isn't an instant on; instant on CFL's have shorter lives than the slow start versions - read the warranty labels).

A 3 watt LED is probably visually equivalent to a 25 watt incandescent bulb, so use a 3 watt LED with a 40 watt equivalent CFL to get close to 60 watt equivalent brightness. None of this is measured with instruments, just with people's reactions - which is often the deciding factor in home lighting - and why the lights for the bathroom mirror are a mix of incandescent and CFL: what my wife is happy with for color balance. When I find an LED with a color balance she likes, the incandescents will go away.

John

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Funny you should mention that Brenda Ann, I have wondered the exact same thing for many years.

Neil S.