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Between ordinary Linux and embedded Linux?
Esp in the context of a machine that is not resource limited eg built
around commercial mobo with a gig of DRAM and CF for HDD

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?
None.
-Michael

Re: Difference?

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One's running on embedded hardware.  The other isn't.

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Grant




Re: Difference?
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So, nothing like pagefile in XP that might trash a flash based drive?

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?
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You are talking about Linux here.  If you want a swap file or swap
partition, use one.  If you don't want one, don't use one.  If you want
to have a swap file/partition for when you really need it, but you don't
want to write to it unnecessarily, set your swappiness to 0 (or at least
very low).

There is no distinction between "embedded" Linux and "non-embedded"
Linux in the way there is between "embedded" XP and "non-embedded" XP.
Use the features of Linux that you want on the platform you want - you
are not restricted to someone else's idea of what features an "embedded"
OS should have.

As for using swap on a flash drive, it depends on the type of flash
drive you are talking about.  If it is a modern flash SSD, then you can
happily use it for swap without worrying much about wearing it out.  But
if it is a compact flash card, for example, then it will be slow and of
limited life span.


Re: Difference?
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It's got to be fast CF for cost reasons.
If only somebody did a fast and cheap SSD with 4GB - that's already a
lot more than I need.

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?
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For CF, you will want to avoid doing much swapping.  It's okay for
occasional use (i.e., have a very low swappiness).  The write endurance
per segment of a CF flash is going to be lower than for a decent SSD
hard disk, and there are far fewer segments to spread the wear - thus
they have lower endurance.

Re: Difference?
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I intend to do no writing from the application it is running.
On a related theme, any idea of the practical time differences between a
CF x200 versus a 5400rpm 2.5" drive when it comes to booting a PC?


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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?

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CF or SD will fail lethally if power goes off unexpectedly. This is due
to the internals of the cards and can't be mended by any file system,
driver or whatever external means.

To be safe you need to keep power up after the last write access for a
minute or so.

-Michael

Re: Difference?
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Given that the application I will be running does not write to flash,
would that be a problem with the OS?

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?
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If you configure the file system not to write last access time, you are
safe.

-Michael


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I've decided to try out Ubuntu 9.10 for Netbooks, since it is designed
to run from flash.

However, I need to run Wine on top of it.
Does than mean when it comes to soundcards I should load the drivers (if
available) on Ubuntu first, or load Windows drivers with Wine?

I need Wine to run a specific VST host, and hopefully asio4all. But not
sure what loads where.

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Dirk

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Re: Difference?
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Hardware drivers need to run in Kernel mode. AFAIK, Wine can't do
this,so you do need native Linux drivers for your hardware.

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There are several projects that run Windows VSTs on Linux. AFAIK, they
do use Wine technology, but they don't simply run Wine, but they
implement a VST host in Linux and use some Wine stuff to load the VST
DLLs an have them display their GUI.

There are at least two such commercial projects: V-Machine and Receptor.
Both come with Linux installed on the vendor's hardware. V-Machine uses
a product called "VFX-Software" as the VST-host. Receptor seems to have
built their own stuff on top of Wine libraries. AFAIK, there is a
similar open source project, as well, but I've no insight into that.

AFAIK, VFX software is available to run in Windows, Mac and Linux, but I
don't know if it's sold to end-users, at all.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?

-Michael

Re: Difference?
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A versatile standalone audio processor.
I've set up a demo on a mini-itx board running XP (not embedded) using
VSTHost, which apparently will run under Wine.
I'd like a nice rapid flash bootable port of that stuff onto Linux (Ubuntu).

I've joined the Ubuntu forums and downloaded the Ubuntu 9.10 for
Netbooks that's designed to run from flash, so hopefully the killer
writes problem is already taken care of.

However, nothing ever goes smoothly, especially given that I know
absolutely nothing about Linux.

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Dirk

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Re: Difference?

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So you need an X86 Netbook, not an ARM based on.

Why not try V-Machine by SM-Pro ? It's very solid, the price is similar
to a Netbook, it has professional audio-I/O already installed and it
runs an appropriately configured Linux including the drivers.

It has a VST host and can load windows VSTs.

It already has Flash a drive on board.

-Michael

Re: Difference?
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Yes.
Thinking of an Atom based mini-itx

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OK - I'll look at it.
However, it's got to be hidden away in its own box with just an on/off
power switch

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Just looked at it, and it's pretty much what I want to build.
Problem is, I can do it at a h/w cost that is around 1/3 of its retail
price, so it's not worth us buying it in. I guess we will be competing
in a similar market.

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?

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I would buy your product right away ! :)

But I doubt that it's possible to sell a V-Machine workalike for the
price you suggest.

BTW, while V-machine is great (and the price not much too high if it
would be possible to run any VST plugin), the great problem that
prevents V-Machine from being widely accepted is that it can't cope with
the protection mechanism companies like NI use. A built-in USB-"key" and
full software support for same would make it a bestseller.

-Michael


Re: Difference?
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NI?

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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Re: Difference?

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Native Instruments. http://www.native-instruments.com

-Michael

Re: Difference?
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OK.
Does look rather expensive.
I just need a fixed function - boot and run with no user tweaking.

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Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
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