From breadboard to ...

There are lots of PCB fab houses that will do you a double sided PCB for very little money. You should be able to get three single Euro card size PCB (160mm x 100) quite cheaply.

This place has a very simple to use cad program linked to their fab process (only their process)...

If you can live with 160mm x 100mm board size, you can get a copy of Eagle for free

and use any board house you desire.

Also, you might take a look at some simple CPLD or FPGA devices to take the place of most if not all of those 25 LSTTL parts.

--
James T. White

without

PCB

process

for

Yes Egale is good. I've also got that.

I used ExpressPCB some years ago and found it ideal for novices who know little or nothing about PCB layout. Experts would have found it too restrictive. Might have changed by now though.

Thanks all. I will take a look at thoses.

On the other side is wirewrap still a solution for a prototype ?

Is there some free CPLD or FPGA software around too ?

Thanks :-)

--- Yes. Even with the perpetually falling cost of PCB's, I find that wire-wrapping a breadboard/prototype is a cost-effective way to get from schematic to 1st cut hardware. There's also the added benefit that if it works when it's wire-wrapped, It'll also work 99+% of the time when it's translated to a PCB.

---

--- Dunno, don't care.

Google is your friend.

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

Ah. Moonlighting as a bartender. . .

Folks have mentioned EAGLE. Nice program. Very usable demo version. Good price structure:

*-layer+OR+*-layers+80mm-*-*+160mm-*-*+eagle+$50

If that doesn't meet your needs, KiCAD: is cross-platform (Windows and Linux). is open source (gratis and libre). has a French development team that seems to be very responsive (bug fixes; English docs).

*-first-three-problems+have-*-been-addressed+Aug-*+No-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-get-rid-of-the-short+zzz+rerouted-*-track+DRC-violation . .

Generally considered archaic.

*-*-*-*-*-*-takes-an-age+*-*-straight-to-PCB+efficient-both-in-time-and-cost+zzz+find-*-sockets-with-*-long-*-posts+more-than-a-decade *-*-blazing-hurry+done-a-*-of-wirewrapping+not-to-*-it+bad-wraps+the-less-expensive-the-slower-it-is+cheaply+*-available+very-simple

With 25 chips * 14 pins == over 300 wraps ON EVERY BOARD--that's a pain. If all your hair isn't gone, you may soon pull it out:

PCB fabrication is CHEAP these days.

$100+zzz+50-Euro-*-*+USD-5-sq-in+3-boards-for-$51-total+5-pcbs-$13-each+browse_frm . . . Rather than posting the same question individually to multiple groups (called multi-posting), instead, the FIRST time you post it put the name of every group in which you would like it to appear on the To: line (the Groups: line). That is called cross-posting.

Thanks :-)

::PCB fabrication is CHEAP these days. :: JeffM

:-) wrote:

I failed to mention that there are those of us who have gone the DIY route and etched our own (2-sided) PCBs. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:4aMoOAMAMzgJ:homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/pcbs.html+Mike-Harrison+Copperset

Yes but it depends how you value your time. How much would you pay for several days off work?

I begin to think really to go with a pcb when ready instead . It will pay itself with the saving building time ...

By what if I can reduce the number of ICs, by using PLD maybe, it could be still a good easy solution ....

I'll see ;-)

Whew, this is really "old school"! I used to do a lot of wirewrap of systems smaller and MUCH larger than this. I'm glad those days are past! Nowadays the preferred design methodology is to use ONE FPGA chip to replace up to hundreds of SSI-MSI chips.

But, if you REALLY will only ever need two units, wire wrap of the design might be pretty cost effective. If you will need a few more in the future, a PCB design might be a lot better choice. A 2-layer board should suffice fine if it works on a breadboard. Others have already commented on cost-effective ways to make protoytype quantities of boards cheaply.

If you have to go out and buy a wire wrap gun, a kit of pre-cut wire, and 50 assorted wire wrap sockets plus the perf boards, that could cost as much or more than a cheap PCB run at one of the low-cost shops!

Wire-wrap, done with professional tools, is plenty reliable. Some wire-wrap gear I built 25 years ago is still running perfectly. Stay away from the obsolete Slit-n-Wrap gimmick, as the insulation is VERY easily cut when dragged around corners, and the shorts are IMPOSSIBLE to find.

Jon

Also, making changes to a wire-wrap board is a lot easier than hacking traces on a prototype PCB.

Jon

This is VERY true. It also eliminates errors that the hand wire-wrapping could introduce.

Yes, a 1-chip FPGA implementation is another way to go. Or, the Xilinx 95xx series of CPLD. The larger of these might be able to fit your entire 25-chip LSTTL design into one $20 part.

Jon

Although a novice I purchased PCB Wizard and found it great, tried the eagle and others and thought I don't have time to learn all the features they offer.

I have created numerous project boards in the garage, and some of them actually work!

:-) wrote: